New NIkon BLACK FX1000- FFP,30mm,Zero-stop

[gohring3006]

We've had 2hst's and now on the 3rd pst go back to be fixed. All on the same 28" 300 win mag shooting 208's @ 2880fps. The brake looks like the Armorlite but scaled down some. We've also had 4 others on rifles with better brakes in 28 nosler 300rum and 2 338's One is a 110 BA savage in 338 Lapua. the other painstick is an 8#338/375 ruger. I shot it without the brake 1 time and the trigger guard torn off half of my trigger side middle fingernail!
If your looking at any sub $1000 scope make sure it is rated for braked .50 cal or 338 performance. Otherwise you will get to talk to the wonderful service department ladies and wait 2-7weeks for your scope to be fixed.
As in Tommy boy. I can go **** in a box and mark it guaranteed. At the end of the day all you have is a box of **** that they will replace with more ****

I had a pst gen 1 get shook apart on a Lapua twice. Switched to a 10 power SS and had no problems. I put the PST on a 6.5 Creedmoor, and it shook apart again. Sent it back and sold it. Decided to pick up one of the Athlons that was claimed to be Japan parts but made in China. It made it 20 rounds on the Lapua then it went blurry.
Right now, the Lapua is wearing a XTR2, so far it has about 100 rounds thru it, with no problems. The 6.5 wears a Bushy Elite 6-24 that's several years old. No problems so far, and I honestly don't expect any.
I don't trust Vortex or Athlon for anything serious, the jury is still out on the Burris.
I have more faith in a 300$ SS than any of the scopes I own, with the exception of the Bushnell Elite. I would probably choose the SS for a work scope out of my current choices though.
I haven't tried any of the Japanese Athlon or Vortex's I have seen those have a pretty good track record.

 

[Capt RB]

Huge fan of the swfa brand. The Burris xtr2 and veracity we sold are on 300s . I know ome is shot every week. So far 1.5 yrs no issues and good glass to boot.
Be nice to see the humbler tests, and some braked 338 testing for these. A 6 or even 6.5 really dosent have the port volume to know.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Not stirring the pot here, never had any issues with nikons, or vortex, nightforces, etc...but aren't nightforces Japanese scope components that are assembled in America? I see a lot of nightforces advertising and written all over their box with made in America. Athlon does something similar but way less subtle. They have an "American Made Compaany" written all over their box. Only reason I say that is because aren't all scope companies guilty of this? Again, this isn't adversarial, just discussion. I know it's hard to read tone on forum threads.

Not Zeiss... Their older Conquest (not sure about the new ones) used all German/Austrian components & lenses, but were assembled here in America, so on the box/scope it says "Assembled in America". I got that info straight from an email I sent to Zeiss. Which explains why those scopes are such high-quality for the money. The two I have are awesome!

 

[MudRunner2005]

I had a pst gen 1 get shook apart on a Lapua twice. Switched to a 10 power SS and had no problems. I put the PST on a 6.5 Creedmoor, and it shook apart again. Sent it back and sold it. Decided to pick up one of the Athlons that was claimed to be Japan parts but made in China. It made it 20 rounds on the Lapua then it went blurry.
Right now, the Lapua is wearing a XTR2, so far it has about 100 rounds thru it, with no problems. The 6.5 wears a Bushy Elite 6-24 that's several years old. No problems so far, and I honestly don't expect any.
I don't trust Vortex or Athlon for anything serious, the jury is still out on the Burris.
I have more faith in a 300$ SS than any of the scopes I own, with the exception of the Bushnell Elite. I would probably choose the SS for a work scope out of my current choices though.
I haven't tried any of the Japanese Athlon or Vortex's I have seen those have a pretty good track record.

I have 3 SWFA SS scopes (20x42 MQ, 3-15x42 MQ, 3-15x42 MQ-DM), as well as 5 Vortex Viper series (1 HS, 4 HS-T). No problems here with any. I don't use any brakes on my rifles (no negative recoil to cause optic issues) all the way up to .300 Ackley. The SS scopes are excellent for the money, they have good glass and are built like tanks (mainly because they were originally designed for the Navy's .50 cal sniper rifles), and the turrets are repeatable with solid and definitive clicks & sounds. But the Vortex HS-T is also a very solid scope with excellent turrets, but has them beat in the glass department.

 

[gohring3006]

I have 3 SWFA SS scopes (20x42 MQ, 3-15x42 MQ, 3-15x42 MQ-DM), as well as 5 Vortex Viper series (1 HS, 4 HS-T). No problems here with any. I don't use any brakes on my rifles (no negative recoil to cause optic issues) all the way up to .300 Ackley. The SS scopes are excellent for the money, they have good glass and are built like tanks (mainly because they were originally designed for the Navy's .50 cal sniper rifles), and the turrets are repeatable with solid and definitive clicks & sounds. But the Vortex HS-T is also a very solid scope with excellent turrets, but has them beat in the glass department.

Yea, not a very good sales pitch, to say " The vortex viper series of scopes are great scopes except on a braked rifle. A braked Lapua will find weak spots. And I don't have time for weak scopes on any of my rifles. In other words if it doesn't hold up to my Lapua, I don't even want it on my ARs.
I really can't imagine, the wire reticle of the HST holding up better that the etched glass reticle of the PST.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yea, not a very good sales pitch, to say " The vortex viper series of scopes are great scopes except on a braked rifle. A braked Lapua will find weak spots. And I don't have time for weak scopes on any of my rifles. In other words if it doesn't hold up to my Lapua, I don't even want it on my ARs.
I really can't imagine, the wire reticle of the HST holding up better that the etched glass reticle of the PST.

I agree, but it is what it is... Install at your own risk. At least Vortex offers a lifetime no-questions asked warranty. That's worth something, right there. Muzzle brakes, and forward-pulled recoil-sprung rifles (like an FN FAL or a break-action pellet/bb gun) are absolutely horrible on scopes and will beat them to death with their funky forward recoil impulse. Not many scopes under $1,000 are built/designed to handle that type of recoil impulse, other than the SWFA SS scopes.

The reason brakes are so bad on scopes, is because as soon as the bullet starts moving, the recoil impulse starts (unnoticed by the shooter), and the rifle starts moving backwards from inertia...But then by the time the bullet exits the muzzle, the gasses hit the muzzle brake, instantly snapping the gun forward from an already reverse motion. That instant transition at millisecond speeds will rattle the hell out some scope internals, and scope lenses that aren't screw-in types that have threaded reinforcement rings on the inside and outside of the lenses. The glue-in types can eventually rattle themselves apart.

 

[gohring3006]

I agree, but it is what it is... Install at your own risk. At least Vortex offers a lifetime no-questions asked warranty. That's worth something, right there. Muzzle brakes, and forward-pulled recoil-sprung rifles (like an FN FAL or a break-action pellet/bb gun) are absolutely horrible on scopes and will beat them to death with their funky forward recoil impulse. Not many scopes under $1,000 are built/designed to handle that type of recoil impulse, other than the SWFA SS scopes.

The reason brakes are so bad on scopes, is because as soon as the bullet starts moving, the recoil impulse starts (unnoticed by the shooter), and the rifle starts moving backwards from inertia...But then by the time the bullet exits the muzzle, the gasses hit the muzzle brake, instantly snapping the gun forward from an already reverse motion. That instant transition at millisecond speeds will rattle the hell out some scope internals, and scope lenses that aren't screw-in types that have threaded reinforcement rings on the inside and outside of the lenses. The glue-in types can eventually rattle themselves apart.

The bad part of that idea, is the market these scope are supposed to be covering, are guys running brakes. These are advertised as tactical scopes. Most all, if not all tactical rifles have muzzle brakes.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The bad part of that idea, is the market these scope are supposed to be covering, are guys running brakes. These are advertised as tactical scopes. Most all, if not all tactical rifles have muzzle brakes.

i don't think a MB is really a qualification for a tactical rifle...Most military sniper rifles (bolt-action) still don't wear muzzle brakes.

But we can agree that with modern trending in the civilian world of "tacticool", that yes, a MB would be almost guaranteed to even consider a gun a "tactical rifle". Part of why I don't use them...On top of the several other actual reasons (sound increase, cost of install, and the fact that I'm not recoil-sensitive).

 

[gohring3006]

i don't think a MB is really a qualification for a tactical rifle...Most military sniper rifles (bolt-action) still don't wear muzzle brakes.

But we can agree that with modern trending in the civilian world of "tacticool", that yes, a MB would be almost guaranteed to even consider a gun a "tactical rifle".

I'm not going to break down what qualifies as a tactical rifle.
Let me reword it...
Most guys who wants these "tactical scopes" have brakes on their rifles.
Is that better for ya mudd?
You want to get all technical with wording and description, while anyone that's involved in shooting, even a beginner would know what the hell I was talking about.
Spare me the BS!!

 

[Capt RB]

i don't think a MB is really a qualification for a tactical rifle...Most military sniper rifles (bolt-action) still don't wear muzzle brakes.

But we can agree that with modern trending in the civilian world of "tacticool", that yes, a MB would be almost guaranteed to even consider a gun a "tactical rifle". Part of why I don't use them...On top of the several other actual reasons (sound increase, cost of install, and the fact that I'm not recoil-sensitive).

All now have a suppressor option. The 300win mags run the surefire brake or can. The new socom 6.5creedmoor runs a brake as well as a can.
At the shoot I went to last wknd all but 2 guns had brakes or suppressor.
If you want to talk to the nice warrantee lady and have your glass tied up for 2 to 7 weeks. It isn't an issue. For some it is. If you want to save money and play go swfa 10x or 3-15 at the 699 mark the 10hd swfa compares well when it's your money.

 

[Reload10]

There is no forward movement with a muzzle brake. The rifle only recoils rearward, just like a non braked rifle. The brake just reduces that recoil.

 

[gohring3006]

There is no forward movement with a muzzle brake. The rifle only recoils rearward, just like a non braked rifle. The brake just reduces that recoil.

Brakes can be hard on "soft" scopes. If that makes sense.
Jerry (JE Customs) provided a great slow motion video in the videos and tech stuff sub forum. Take a look, it's a eye opener. But a well made scope can handle it.

 

[gohring3006]

I just tried to find the video, it appears it been removed. Maybe Jerry will see this thread and chime in.

 

[MudRunner2005]

There is no forward movement with a muzzle brake. The rifle only recoils rearward, just like a non braked rifle. The brake just reduces that recoil.

It's a delayed hitting instantaneous forward pressure during a continuous rearward movement slowing the inertia, and that's what slams the insides of a scope up like a sledgehammer hitting a wooden clock.