Neither of them offer much data for IMR 7828, IMR 7977, or RL-23. I checked them that is why I said I had to make my own data.
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Neither of them offer much data for IMR 7828, IMR 7977, or RL-23. I checked them that is why I said I had to make my own data.
You top out at 67gr/IMR-7828 with 208 gr and Berger data for 210gr start load is 61.5gr/IMR-7828ssc @ 2535fps and max of 68.5gr/IMR-7828ssc @ 2830fps and that's from 26" barrel.
Thank you. I looked at a friend's Berger manual awhile back and did not remember seeing IMR 7828 in there. Seems my data makes sense, I am a 1.5gr under their max but my brass is heavier than regular Norma. If they got 2830 than I think I can get 2900 with the 28" barrel.
Finally got the time to go out and see what this rifle is made of. Did not get out as early as I wanted, but I had enough time to accomplish everything I wanted.
I started out bore sighting and getting on paper at 25 yards. Went to 100 yards and fired one sighter and got on target. With my tripod mounted chrono and having to shoot prone, I can't chrono and shoot on paper at the same time. So I took two shots over the chrony, one with 67gr of IMR 7828 and one with 66gr of RL23. The 7828 went 2803fps and the RL23 load went 2850fps. I was a little discourage about the speed, more to this below.
I shot one round and cleaned until the copper was gone, did this for only three shots then the copper never showed up with shots 4-10. Very happy with this Bartlein so far! Time was running out and the sun was going down. I quickly loaded 3 into the magazine and took aim. I racked off three in a row and put the first two literally in the same hole and pulled the last one. Final group measured just over half inch and that made me happy even with me pulling the last one.
After taking my final shots at 100yds, I took aim at the 10" steel plate at 690 yards. I had two IMR 7828 loads left and two RL23 rounds. I typed all of my data into my ballistics app and dialed 15 MOA. What I forgot was that I was 2 MOA up, from zeroing in earlier, and I never reset my turrets. So I actually was dialed for 13 MOA, not 15 like I believed. My two shots with IMR 7828 landed just in-front of the plate and both of them literally went into the same clump of mud. I never touched the dial when I went to RL23 because I figured that little extra speed would get me on the plate. I fired one and hit just under the 1" white dot in the center. My cousin had been wanting to try it out so I let him shoot my last round and he hit just a couple inches under my shot. Pretty good performance I think. The muzzle brake is awesome and spotting my hits is so easy! It is a little louder than normal, but that is well worth the ability to see your rounds impact the target through the scope!
After getting home, I realized I was only 13 MOA up, and not 15 MOA like I had thought. Luckily for me, my cousin shot his .223 AI through the chrono and got 2880fps, which I thought was slow for that load/gun. I double checked my notes and he got 2945fps for an average of 5 shots with the same load of Varget and 75gr A-MAXs just this past fall. I think my batteries are dying or something, because my chrono has been off like this before and changing the batteries seemed to fix it. I am not saying I am getting X amount of speed or anything yet, but I am getting more than 2850fps according to the drop data. Before I confirm anything, I am planning on loading up some more rounds and sending those downrange to get a better idea of what I am getting for velocity. I also want to chrono the RL23 load, with new batteries, and shoot it on paper to see how consistent it is and what my ES and SDs are. I am very pleased with the accuracy and cannot believe how mild the recoil is, it's like shooting my .243! Very happy with the rifle!
Below are some pictures I took this evening, and the group I shot at 100 yards. I cut it out of the large shoot and see target and stuck it to a yellow sticky note so the sticky backer, on the target, wouldn't get stuck to everything haha, and it was smaller to keep in my log book.
I started out bore sighting and getting on paper at 25 yards. Went to 100 yards and fired one sighter and got on target. With my tripod mounted chrono and having to shoot prone, I can't chrono and shoot on paper at the same time. So I took two shots over the chrony, one with 67gr of IMR 7828 and one with 66gr of RL23. The 7828 went 2803fps and the RL23 load went 2850fps. I was a little discourage about the speed, more to this below.
I shot one round and cleaned until the copper was gone, did this for only three shots then the copper never showed up with shots 4-10. Very happy with this Bartlein so far! Time was running out and the sun was going down. I quickly loaded 3 into the magazine and took aim. I racked off three in a row and put the first two literally in the same hole and pulled the last one. Final group measured just over half inch and that made me happy even with me pulling the last one.
After taking my final shots at 100yds, I took aim at the 10" steel plate at 690 yards. I had two IMR 7828 loads left and two RL23 rounds. I typed all of my data into my ballistics app and dialed 15 MOA. What I forgot was that I was 2 MOA up, from zeroing in earlier, and I never reset my turrets. So I actually was dialed for 13 MOA, not 15 like I believed. My two shots with IMR 7828 landed just in-front of the plate and both of them literally went into the same clump of mud. I never touched the dial when I went to RL23 because I figured that little extra speed would get me on the plate. I fired one and hit just under the 1" white dot in the center. My cousin had been wanting to try it out so I let him shoot my last round and he hit just a couple inches under my shot. Pretty good performance I think. The muzzle brake is awesome and spotting my hits is so easy! It is a little louder than normal, but that is well worth the ability to see your rounds impact the target through the scope!
After getting home, I realized I was only 13 MOA up, and not 15 MOA like I had thought. Luckily for me, my cousin shot his .223 AI through the chrono and got 2880fps, which I thought was slow for that load/gun. I double checked my notes and he got 2945fps for an average of 5 shots with the same load of Varget and 75gr A-MAXs just this past fall. I think my batteries are dying or something, because my chrono has been off like this before and changing the batteries seemed to fix it. I am not saying I am getting X amount of speed or anything yet, but I am getting more than 2850fps according to the drop data. Before I confirm anything, I am planning on loading up some more rounds and sending those downrange to get a better idea of what I am getting for velocity. I also want to chrono the RL23 load, with new batteries, and shoot it on paper to see how consistent it is and what my ES and SDs are. I am very pleased with the accuracy and cannot believe how mild the recoil is, it's like shooting my .243! Very happy with the rifle!
Below are some pictures I took this evening, and the group I shot at 100 yards. I cut it out of the large shoot and see target and stuck it to a yellow sticky note so the sticky backer, on the target, wouldn't get stuck to everything haha, and it was smaller to keep in my log book.
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I am shooting the 208gr ELD Match. I am thinking my velocity is actually somewhere in the 2900fps range. I will report back after I chrono it again and shoot some more. I have to say it's one of the most comfortable rifles I have ever shot!
Well I got out and did some more shooting with the .308 Norma this weekend! I finalized my load, sticking with the 208gr ELD Match .020 off the lands, pushed by 66.0 grains of RL23, and lit with a WLRM primer all stuffed into match prepped Bertram brass. I started off testing two shots in my cousins yard at 50 yards while he got a new rifle of his on paper. I wanted to make sure my turrets were zeroed perfect and my windage was good, since it was off last time and I ran out of rounds that day. I fired two shots and made about a .35cal hole in the paper haha, I know it is only 50 yards, but I thought it was cool.
I did not chronograph any today because my chrono is junk. I am tired of its inconsistent readings from day to day from light changes and weather. So I did not even bring it along and decided to just figure out my speed by whatever my drops were at 500 and 700 yards. I fired two shots at 500 yards at a grapefruit sized snow clump on a rock. I did not account for the wind so both shots landed in the shadow to the right of the snow and it was hard to determine if they were dead on or slightly high. I figured we would get a better idea at long range, so we took it out to 700 yards on a 10" steel plate.
I dialed my first shot for 2850fps and landed almost two full minutes high. I dialed down two and put two in the mud right where the plate was sunk into the ground. I came up half a minute and put one just off the left edge, wind caught me and I fired another and hit the same hole in the mud just on the left edge too make sure it was wind and not me or the rifle. I dialed a half minute right and the wind picked up just slightly as I touched the next round off. The round had perfect elevation and was just a couple inches from center, I quickly racked off two more rounds. Both impacted with perfect elevation and no vertical spread, right in line with the first shot of the group. Each of the two rounds landed about 3/4-1" farther to the left than the last. That wind was just ever so slightly picking up with each shot! What I ended up with was a very nice sub-half MOA group with perfect elevation, no vertical stringing, and just a few inches left from the quick wind change. Just as the wind started to die off some, my cousin fired two rounds and both were stacked right in the center of the plate! This rifle is hammering and is a blast to shoot!
Below are some pictures I took today. The first is of my .308 Norma (back) and my cousin's custom built .240 Weatherby (front) just after shooting this afternoon. The second is the picture of my 700 yard group, the red dots I put there with a phone app to try and show exactly where each bullet hit. The third and final is of a 208gr ELD that I recovered from one of the rounds that hit low in the mud.
Some of my final thoughts, I think the ELDs are performing awesome and I ran them with a G1 BC of .683 and they are opening up very nicely! I typed all of data into my shooting app and Hornady's 4DOF calculator and got a speed of 2960-2970fps. A lot better than my chrono speeds and more than the 2900 I expected. This rifle, cartridge, and load is a ton of fun to shoot and I could easily spot my own hits on every shot and even watched my vapor trails impact on a couple shots. I am happy with my decision and I will be saving up to get a big supply of RL23, 208 ELDs and Bertram brass. I hope you all enjoy my progress with this oldie but goodie cartridge and my first modern long range build.
I did not chronograph any today because my chrono is junk. I am tired of its inconsistent readings from day to day from light changes and weather. So I did not even bring it along and decided to just figure out my speed by whatever my drops were at 500 and 700 yards. I fired two shots at 500 yards at a grapefruit sized snow clump on a rock. I did not account for the wind so both shots landed in the shadow to the right of the snow and it was hard to determine if they were dead on or slightly high. I figured we would get a better idea at long range, so we took it out to 700 yards on a 10" steel plate.
I dialed my first shot for 2850fps and landed almost two full minutes high. I dialed down two and put two in the mud right where the plate was sunk into the ground. I came up half a minute and put one just off the left edge, wind caught me and I fired another and hit the same hole in the mud just on the left edge too make sure it was wind and not me or the rifle. I dialed a half minute right and the wind picked up just slightly as I touched the next round off. The round had perfect elevation and was just a couple inches from center, I quickly racked off two more rounds. Both impacted with perfect elevation and no vertical spread, right in line with the first shot of the group. Each of the two rounds landed about 3/4-1" farther to the left than the last. That wind was just ever so slightly picking up with each shot! What I ended up with was a very nice sub-half MOA group with perfect elevation, no vertical stringing, and just a few inches left from the quick wind change. Just as the wind started to die off some, my cousin fired two rounds and both were stacked right in the center of the plate! This rifle is hammering and is a blast to shoot!
Below are some pictures I took today. The first is of my .308 Norma (back) and my cousin's custom built .240 Weatherby (front) just after shooting this afternoon. The second is the picture of my 700 yard group, the red dots I put there with a phone app to try and show exactly where each bullet hit. The third and final is of a 208gr ELD that I recovered from one of the rounds that hit low in the mud.
Some of my final thoughts, I think the ELDs are performing awesome and I ran them with a G1 BC of .683 and they are opening up very nicely! I typed all of data into my shooting app and Hornady's 4DOF calculator and got a speed of 2960-2970fps. A lot better than my chrono speeds and more than the 2900 I expected. This rifle, cartridge, and load is a ton of fun to shoot and I could easily spot my own hits on every shot and even watched my vapor trails impact on a couple shots. I am happy with my decision and I will be saving up to get a big supply of RL23, 208 ELDs and Bertram brass. I hope you all enjoy my progress with this oldie but goodie cartridge and my first modern long range build.
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Thanks TOM, I will report back more on here whenever I get to do some more shooting or gather anymore information on this rifle.
