Overkill338
Well-Known Member
The .260 Rem was already doing it. So yes, the Crapmoor is all hype, considering it's just a copy with a fancy neck.
My wife had to have one, against my wishes, but at least she's shooting.
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New Cartridge 6.8 Western
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My wife had to have one, against my wishes, but at least she's shooting.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
The 260 wasn't already doing it in factory rifles. Not till the 6.5 Creed was wiping the floor with it into obscurity did remington change the twist to an 8. It originally had a 10 then 9.25 and now finally to try and stay alive it has an 8. It doesn't have a fancy neck either. It's the great 30 degree shoulder and straighter taper on the body. Also bringing the shoulder back some to make room for long bullets. All can be had on all the factory 6.5creed rifles. The 260 just recently got a promotion to the 8 twist. So the vast majority of the 260s don't have the required twist to keep up with the Creed. At least your wife is smart.
Shep
Shep
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Again this is 100% correct. The 260 was never great to begin with. Remington tried to bring out a hunting cartridge using Core-Lokt ammo. It was never a long range cartridge until people made it into a long range cartridge. It's a good round, but it was never designed to be used as a long range cartridge with high BC bullets in a short action and be run effectively. This is the same as the 243 vs 6mm Creedmoor. The 243 is a good round but it's designed with a 9-10 twist barrel for 70-100gr low BC bullets for varminting or deer hunting. The Creedmoors are just designed from the start like a custom chamber with the correct twist rates and freebore for a short action cartridge.The 260 wasn't already doing it in factory rifles. Not till the y.5 Creed was wiping the floor with it into obscurity did remington change the twist to an 8. It originally had a 10 then 9.25 and now finally to try and stay alive it has an 8. It doesn't have a fancy neck either. It's the great 30 degree shoulder and straighter taper on the body. Also bringing the shoulder back some to make room for long bullets. All can be had on all the factory 6.5creed rifles. The 260 just recently got a promotion to the 8 twist. So the vast majority of the 260s don't have the required twist to keep up with the Creed. At least your wife is smart.
Shep
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
Yep, and it is at least partly your fault for mentioning this in the past.
Seems like there's a disconnect where some guys seem to think that the twist stated in the SAMMI spec is all that any given chamber can have, where others know this isn't true unless dealing exclusively with factory barreled rifles. The former talk about how XX chambering can't push HFC bullets because it wasn't designed to do that, while the latter know that if you spec the correct twist barrel and set the throating correctly that then they can do just that and some do it rather well.
That's just an impression that I'm getting from reading this thread. It may or may not be (inherently) accurate.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Right you are. I never do a twist because it's sammi spec. I do the twist for the bullets I want to shoot. The cartridge has no idea what bullet you stuff into it so why does it care what twist it is. Personally I think all cartridges can be very accurate. Cartridges that are so called inheretly accurate I think just have very wide tuning nodes and so they are accurate with more varieties of ammo.
Shep
Shep
MajorSpittle
Well-Known Member
Most people buy a rifle and don't rebarrel it. I currently have a tikka, ruger, and 2 Remington with stock barrels. '06 with 11", 270 with 10", 243 with 9", and 6.5 PRC with 8" twist.
I spent $500 on the 6.5 PRC which was the same it would have cost to rebarrel each of the other rifles to get the proper twist rates for their chambering.
I see no logic in spending $500 to rebarrel a $500 rifle that will still be worth only $500 after it is rebarreled. That's why the Creedmoor and PRC are the biggest successes this century.
I spent $500 on the 6.5 PRC which was the same it would have cost to rebarrel each of the other rifles to get the proper twist rates for their chambering.
I see no logic in spending $500 to rebarrel a $500 rifle that will still be worth only $500 after it is rebarreled. That's why the Creedmoor and PRC are the biggest successes this century.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
I can see that logic, but what about the $250 bare action that I recently bought? Stuff a good barrel on it, pin a decent trigger under it, & drop into some wet Devcon AL putty in a ~$250 stock, then plop some glass on top of it. Now I've got a rifle that is the way that I want it to be and while I'm still upside down in it, only less so, I didn't build it to sell. I built it to shoot. ROI has no place in that calculation.
Overkill338
Well-Known Member
The .30 TC is supposed to be the same improvement over the .308, that it basically copied, too, right? So the 6mm CM means the .243 is junk now. Throw a .284/.338/.358 bullet in it and suddenly, the 7-08/.338 Fed/.358 Win is pointless? Not discussing barrels that the original chambering could benefit from, but the cartridge itself.The 260 wasn't already doing it in factory rifles. Not till the 6.5 Creed was wiping the floor with it into obscurity did remington change the twist to an 8. It originally had a 10 then 9.25 and now finally to try and stay alive it has an 8. It doesn't have a fancy neck either. It's the great 30 degree shoulder and straighter taper on the body. Also bringing the shoulder back some to make room for long bullets. All can be had on all the factory 6.5creed rifles. The 260 just recently got a promotion to the 8 twist. So the vast majority of the 260s don't have the required twist to keep up with the Creed. At least your wife is smart.
Shep
By the way, I'm not attacking your opinion. Just making a healthy debate.
With all that said, it would be fun to build a .260 with a 8 twist, some free bore, and run it at 63 psi like the CM, instead of the 60k saami gave it.
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25WSM
Well-Known Member
Nothing really wrong about any of those cartridges. They were not designed from the ground up to be long range cartridges. There are probably millions of rifles chambered in the cartridges you stated. They will live on.
People have been building 8 twist 260s with long freebore for a long time now for long range BR. But they are run in single shot BR actions. C.o.a.l. doesn't matter as much. But when you extend the free bore on a 260 and seat vld bullets out where they belong it won't fit into any short action. It would fit a Tikka nicely or a med action. Most 260s I see shooting at 1000 yards are actually 260AIs and they do it to get rid of the body taper and the shallow shoulder angle.
Personally I think the best 243 and 260 is the SLR modification. This is what they should have been from the start. Longer neck and 30 degree shoulder. I shot a 6slr at the World Open 1000 yard and got 2nd place 2 gun overall with it. It's a really easy to tune cartridge but even so properly throated it won't fit in a short action. Even the 6.5creed properly throated won't fit in a short action but it closer than the 260.
So the perfect 6.5 for a short action is probably the 6.5x47 but it just hasn't gone mainstream yet and with the grip of the 6.5creed never will.
Shep
People have been building 8 twist 260s with long freebore for a long time now for long range BR. But they are run in single shot BR actions. C.o.a.l. doesn't matter as much. But when you extend the free bore on a 260 and seat vld bullets out where they belong it won't fit into any short action. It would fit a Tikka nicely or a med action. Most 260s I see shooting at 1000 yards are actually 260AIs and they do it to get rid of the body taper and the shallow shoulder angle.
Personally I think the best 243 and 260 is the SLR modification. This is what they should have been from the start. Longer neck and 30 degree shoulder. I shot a 6slr at the World Open 1000 yard and got 2nd place 2 gun overall with it. It's a really easy to tune cartridge but even so properly throated it won't fit in a short action. Even the 6.5creed properly throated won't fit in a short action but it closer than the 260.
So the perfect 6.5 for a short action is probably the 6.5x47 but it just hasn't gone mainstream yet and with the grip of the 6.5creed never will.
Shep
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Overkill by the way I wasn't calling you stupid, just stating your wife was smarter. Glad you got her shooting. Mine did for awhile and then came kids and she just doesn't want to shoot no more. Kinda sucks because I've been a custom rifle builder for 30 yrs and shoot all the time. I built her a .222 for her first rifle and she shot it well. Awhile back if you asked me what to get your kid or wife I would of said 260 or 7mm08 but now I only say 6.5creed.
Shep
Shep
I built a 7 twist 22-250AI and I shoot 75 grain Swift Scirroccos out of it at 3600fps. Only cartridge I've ever seen it drop deer, axis and pigs as fast is my 257 Weatherby.
I recently put together a 6.5x47 Lapua for my wife. Nothing extreme; 22" 5R Rock Creek cut rifle barrel #3 contour, Bobby Hart Laminated stock with full length bedding block, trued Rem 700 receiver, Jewell trigger at 2#, Leupold VX5 3-15x44, Seekins rings, dedicated Harvester suppressor.
**** thing is the easiest to tune rifle I have ever shot. I built this for a light weight hunting rig for her. She's never shot from a bench before but this was the groups she was getting with the 1set of loads I made for it.
Velocity shocked me as well. 129ABLR bullets in Lapua cases and CCI BR4 primers.
It shot 130 Bergers equally as well even though they were loaded lighter for some fouling loads.
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Sadly, as expected, the thread got hijacked and turned into bashing.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Well then revive it. Tell us something more about a new cartridge that has virtually no info. Tell us what bullet weights are going to be offered. What speed are they going. What rifle will it be built on. The only thing that's not speculation at this point is what sammi says it will look like and it's speced for an 8 twist. Not much else to talk about. Every thread on this site wanders a bit after the first few pages. But we keep them going and have fun doing so. Sadly the only real bashing I see on this thread is you bashing members for wandering off topic a bit.
This thread could have been over at 1/4 of a page because that's all the info there is on this new cartridge. And post 139 added absolutely nothing to it's content. Not even popcorn.
Shep
This thread could have been over at 1/4 of a page because that's all the info there is on this new cartridge. And post 139 added absolutely nothing to it's content. Not even popcorn.
Shep
