new barrel break in

[FEENIX]

So Gale McMillan believes barrel break in is "not necessary". Does that mean we all follow it or let the result speak for itself ... hopefully the accuracy, ease of cleaning/less fouling and other advantages, etc ... Is he the only barrel maker that believes on this practice? Most premium barrel makers such as Bartlein, Krieger, Lilja, Pac-Nor, Shilen, do recommend a barrel break-in process.

Similarly, another famous pioneer, considered way ahead of his time also made a comment on barrel lapping ..."No need for it, just wears the barrel out!" P.O. Ackley. (http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm)

Contrary to Ackley's dictum, lapping will add to the accurate life of a barrel, not detract from it ... and thus barrel makers lapped their barrels with excellent result as presented by Lilja's borescope video in #9.

Just saying ...

 

[J E Custom]

So Gale McMillan believes barrel break in is "not necessary". Does that mean we all follow it or let the result speak for itself ... hopefully the accuracy, ease of cleaning/less fouling and other advantages, etc ... Is he the only barrel maker that believes on this practice? Most premium barrel makers such as Bartlein, Krieger, Lilja, Pac-Nor, Shilen, do recommend a barrel break-in process.

Similarly, another famous pioneer, considered way ahead of his time also made a comment on barrel lapping ..."No need for it, just wears the barrel out!" P.O. Ackley. (http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/bmart.htm)

Contrary to Ackley's dictum, lapping will add to the accurate life of a barrel, not detract from it ... and thus barrel makers lapped their barrels with excellent result as presented by Lilja's borescope video in #9.

Just saying ...

Very well said !!!!!

It is still the choice of every gun owner to breakin or not, And individual experiences with there
firearms.

I hear - Don,t use bronze brushes and then hear don,t use nylon, use this solvent or that solvent,
clean every shot, clean after 15 or 20 shots,or dont clean until the accuracy falls off.

Whats a person to believe?

I think every person should try different methods and use what works for him.

I have already stated what I think is the best, but if a product comes along that shows an
improvement, I will try it and evaluate it to my needs and requirements and make the
nessary changes in pursuit of a better shooting firearm.

You can teach an old dog new tricks. And not to long ago a friend recomended the use of
another bore cleaner, (Just what I needed, I already use 3 or 4 depending on the severity
of the fouling in some of the weapons I see or own.

Some solvents are very aggressive and work well on badly fouled factory barrels but you cant
leave them in the bore very long (4 or 5 minutes) I never use these solvents on custom barrels.

Next is the solvents that work well but need more time to do there job (15 to 20 minutes before removal is nessary.

Them there are mild solvents that can be left in the bore longer. I use these to remove the more
aggressive solvents before final cleaning.

I am not trusting enough to leave bore solvent in the bore indefinitely so I do not practice this.

The solvent that my friend recomended was Bore Tec and it has worked out very well in some
cases and will be added to my arsenal of solvents.

So like everything else there is no "ONE" best anything, just what gives you confidence that what
you are doing is best for you and your needs.

Just another opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[etisll40]

Thanks to whoever posted the Lilja barrel video. It really makes me want to buy a bore laser scope as I saw for the first time what a barrel should look like. That explains to me what the potential accuracy can be. It seems that if you start out with a great barrel you want to mazimize it's accuracy. And if you don't have a good barrel what should be done with it? I guess the definition of accuracy is important all other things consider. Good barrels should be cherished and taken care of and crap ones either scrap or use for plinking? Where do I find a good borescope and how much should I pay? It seems like a great investment, saves in shooting costs and time.

 

[FEENIX]

Thanks to whoever posted the Lilja barrel video. It really makes me want to buy a bore laser scope as I saw for the first time what a barrel should look like. That explains to me what the potential accuracy can be. It seems that if you start out with a great barrel you want to mazimize it's accuracy. And if you don't have a good barrel what should be done with it? I guess the definition of accuracy is important all other things consider. Good barrels should be cherished and taken care of and crap ones either scrap or use for plinking? Where do I find a good borescope and how much should I pay? It seems like a great investment, saves in shooting costs and time.

You're quite welcome! If you want the same set up as Lilja, you might to give Dan Lilja a call. He's a very nice guy and easy to talk to. Also, FYSA, Lilja can video tape borescope of your barrel for a nominal fee of $25.

Good luck!

Ed

 

[Bart B]

Note also that the way one tests a given barrel for accuracy will have quite a spread of results across a few dozen people.

 

[FEENIX]

Note also that the way one tests a given barrel for accuracy will have quite a spread of results across a few dozen people.

The same is true with machines, thus tolerances are set.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I never really looked at break in as a way to improve accuracy and have heard or read of few cases where it did and have never seen any difference with my barrels. So all though possible I don't think readers should expect much different in accuracy. It's a possibility and apparently JE has seen improved accuracy, but I see break in as primarily a bore conditioning procedure to make cleaning easier and less frequently required.

As far as which products are best, there's a simple way to test that if you don't have a bore scope. If you think you have removed all the copper with a product, then follow up with another product, such as Bore Tech. The best copper removing products I have used have been Wipe Out Foam, Gun Slick Foam and Bore Tech. I would rate Gun Slick Foam slightly less than Wipe Out and Bore Tech. Bore Tech is a little more labor intensive than Wipe Out but much quicker,

I have tested Bore Tech against numerous other products including, Montana Xtreme, KG 12 and Butches Bore Shine. In my experiences, Bore Tech always removed more copper after those products were showing white patches. Bore Tech and Wipe Out are also safe. They will not damage your bore with long soakings.

Here's a good thread on the topic...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/bore-solvent-70001/

 

[chootem]

Well I want to thank all you guy's for the input on the barrel break in , I've read all the pros and cons and goggled it to death and in my mind I think it would be beneficial to do a break in on my new gun . I may take some life off the barrel with the break in but I like to shoot any way and I didn't buy it to just look pretty in the gun cabinet so I going to invest in some of those good cleaning products ya'll recomended ,I'm going to shoot and clean till I see what what I think is an improved barrel ! Thanks again for all the help an input all you guy's are great !gun)

 

[Bart B]

After I mention that the way one tests a given barrel for accuracy will have quite a spread of results across a few dozen people, FEENIX says the same is true with machines, thus tolerances are set.

So, FEENIX, do you mean that tolerances are set for people for a given rifle-ammo machine?

If so, how much tolerance of people's shooting ability should we allow for judging a given rifle-ammo machine's accuracy claims?

 

[roninflag]

complete barrel break in procedure is found on rifleman'sblog. and below.

 

[etisll40]

I'd suggest to go to David Tubbs website. The man's probably shot as many rounds down range than any human on earth has. He's won many competitions, broken in barrels, had guns made, makes them himself, designs guns, experiments with different aspects, re -loads to perfection, etc. No, I don't know David or his organization, but maybe check his site out and watch some of his video's and go from there. It's hard to find just one opinion on cleaning and barrel break-in, but he's likely to enlighten us about the subject of barrel break-in and much else.

I don't market for him, know him, but all of my successes in my life have come from experience and I always look to the people before me to shorten my learning curve. I like firearms, hunting, target shooting and such, he's a great resource for all of us. It's kind of nice that he has a website and short video's and such to learn from. I'd say it's kind of a give back to us to have someone talk about important and valuable areas that will save us time and money so we can get the most out of our sport/hobby. Life's short, I want to max it out.

I hope no one takes offense to this post, as there are many here who are truly knowledgeable in a way that David is too.

Happy New Year.

 

[FEENIX]

After I mention that the way one tests a given barrel for accuracy will have quite a spread of results across a few dozen people, FEENIX says the same is true with machines, thus tolerances are set.

So, FEENIX, do you mean that tolerances are set for people for a given rifle-ammo machine?

If so, how much tolerance of people's shooting ability should we allow for judging a given rifle-ammo machine's accuracy claims?

First, if I offend you with my statement, it was not my intention other than establishing the fact that machines are not perfect and it has tolerances.

Are you saying there are no set/acceptable tolerances in machining? I have limited machine shop experience and quality control assurance/inspection but I remember varying tolerances criteria such as; XXX +/- .001 ; XXXX +/- .0005, etc...

It is not my business to judge people's shooting ability. I respect everyone's shooting ability. Shooting ability, esp. in LR, does not happen overnight - practice, practice, practice, ... all of which are end users responsibility ... not mine or anybody's business IMHHO.

As long as human factors are involved it will always complicate things. End users has the ultimate responsibility of their action and its consequences. If a rifle was built with a guarantee of 1/2 MOA at 100 yards for a certain ammo when tested, yes it is a big plus to start with an accurate set up but it does not make the end user automatically a 1/2 MOA shooter, what end user has to do to achieve that is entirely up to them.

 

[Bart B]

To me, FEENIX asks:

Are you saying there are no set/acceptable tolerances in machining?

No, but every hand-held shoulder-fired arm gets its own shot dispersion added to by the dispersions of human physical behavior. To date, there's no tolerances set in the shooting sports as to what's the worst human dispersion that's allowed to test an arm for accuracy.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Well I want to thank all you guy's for the input on the barrel break in , I've read all the pros and cons and goggled it to death and in my mind I think it would be beneficial to do a break in on my new gun . I may take some life off the barrel with the break in but I like to shoot any way and I didn't buy it to just look pretty in the gun cabinet so I going to invest in some of those good cleaning products ya'll recomended ,I'm going to shoot and clean till I see what what I think is an improved barrel ! Thanks again for all the help an input all you guy's are great !gun)

If i ever break in another factory barrel, I will probably use Montana X-treme Copper Cream with Bore Tech. Copper Cream has a mild abrasive in it. I would probably run 2 or 3 patches fo Cooper cream after each shot and stroke each patch about 5 times. Then I would finish up with Bore Tech, then fire again and repeat. I would probably only use the Copper cream for the first 3 or 4 shots. You don't want to over do it with that product.

Would be very interested in hearing results.

Good Shooting,

Mark