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Need muzzleloader help please

I have 3 smoke sticks all 54 caliber Hawkens. One is barreled for bullets only (1in32 twist) cap lock, shoot 100 grains of holy black with a 450 grain bullet. I can tell U when U touch that off it gets your attention real quick. One is a Hawken cap lock that is rifled for patch round ball only 1 in 60 twist, and one is a Hawken flint lock in 54 that I built and is rifled for patch round ball only with a 1 in 66 twist. When target shooting I clean between shots with alcohol (rubbing) or windshield washing fulid or ballastol. Just run a slightly wet patch down the bore followed by a dry one. When I clean at the end of a shooting session I use warm soapy water and rinse with warm clean water until my patches come out clean. Run some dry patches through then coat the bore with sweet oil, (olive oil what the old timers used) or WD40. store the rifle muzzle down. As for bullet lube on my 450 grain pills I use a 50-50 mix of bees wax and salt free shorting. When the weather gets hot out I cut down on the shortening and use a little more bees wax. If I am using a black powder substitute such as trip 7, pyrodex, my cleaning regime is the same as for holy black. Hope this helps.

Cheers & Tighter Groups Eaglesnester in northern B.C. Canada
 
cheers guys, ive been having a lot of trouble getting bore butter here though, as in no one seems to want to import it. So at this stage I'm just looking at substitutes.
 
WAGH! Bore butter is for suckers that fall for phony things, just like those that use frog lube to keep their ar's firing.

Bore butter is nothing more than a food grade lubricant and its waxy formula only builds up to ruin a rifles accuracy over time and is a horrible protectant against rust.

You can not "season" a modern steel barrel. Its not cast iron.

The best thing to do is dump bore butter Period, flush your bore out with boiling hot water to melt what ever crud is in there that bore turd left behind and then follow up with a quality gun oil. I love barricade.

The myth about petro oils being bad is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. ANY LUBE you put down the bore during storage MUST come out prior to loading it. This means using something strong like brake cleaner, carb cleaner, alcohol, gun scrubber, something that will cut through the grease/oil easily to remove it. This includes the same manor when using bore butter.

Patch lube is the most important thing when using patched round balls. Bore butter is an alright lube for patches but there are many other better lubes such as moose milk, mr flintlocks patch lube, mink oil, even olive oil mixed with a tiny bit of bees wax provides much better lubrication than what bore butter offers.
 
Anyone using "white hots" pellets. I've heard there is little smoke and very little cleaning necessary?

72 pellets for $29 VS $26 for 100 T7 pellets.

Whitehots produce less velocity than T7 pellets by a great deal. IMO they only decrease the crud ring simply because they are not as hot as T7. A cooler primer like the winchester 777 or cci inline MZL primer is best suited using using T7 to keep the crud ring down.

So basically no, with the right primers you can get lucky to load a few shots before needing to clean. If you want the best powder made for an inline muzzleloader, provided that your inline is suited for it, Blackhorn209 is the way to go.
 
WAGH! Bore butter is for suckers that fall for phony things, just like those that use frog lube to keep their ar's firing.

Bore butter is nothing more than a food grade lubricant and its waxy formula only builds up to ruin a rifles accuracy over time and is a horrible protectant against rust.

You can not "season" a modern steel barrel. Its not cast iron.

The best thing to do is dump bore butter Period, flush your bore out with boiling hot water to melt what ever crud is in there that bore turd left behind and then follow up with a quality gun oil. I love barricade.

The myth about petro oils being bad is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. ANY LUBE you put down the bore during storage MUST come out prior to loading it. This means using something strong like brake cleaner, carb cleaner, alcohol, gun scrubber, something that will cut through the grease/oil easily to remove it. This includes the same manor when using bore butter.

Patch lube is the most important thing when using patched round balls. Bore butter is an alright lube for patches but there are many other better lubes such as moose milk, mr flintlocks patch lube, mink oil, even olive oil mixed with a tiny bit of bees wax provides much better lubrication than what bore butter offers.

Bwaaahahahahahahaha..............okay pard............if you say so. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
Why We Don't Season Barrels Anymore
by
Paul H. Vallandigham
Periodically, some new shooter comes on the forum claiming that he needs to "SEASON" his barrel.
Today's modern barrels are made of STEEL, an alloy of iron and other metals, which produces a much harder metal. Muzzleloading barrels are made either of a soft alloy with lead in it to make it easy on the cutters (12L14), or harder steels, like 440 alloy steel, which withstands high pressures, but is harder on tool bits. They are not made of the iron that was used in the 18th century.


We don't season Steel, because its next to impossible to do (those pores in steel are filled with trace elements, so there is no room to allow oils or other substances to be burned into the pores), and its Not necessary for good accuracy, or to prevent rust. Simply running an oiled, or greased cleaning patch down the barrel AFTER seating a PRB on the powder charge, will protect the front portion of the bore from rusting.


Today, the most common IRON product to be found in a home is the Frying pan, or "Skillet" used to cook. Even those are becoming more rare- often only seen in camping equipment, rather than used in the home kitchen. Skillets are made of CAST IRON, which, unlike Wrought iron, have large PORES in the surface.



We SEASON cast iron skillets (but not steel, aluminum, or Teflon coated skillets) to fill the pores of the steel to prevent rusting (RUST adds a terrible taste to food), and to make a very smooth slick surface to use to cook certain foods, like Eggs.
To Season a Frying pan, or skillet, you first rub the surfaces of the skillet with shortening, or lard, or fat. Coat it liberally, so that you don't miss a spot. The place the greased skillet in an oven heated to 500 degrees!


Leave the skillet in the oven at that high temperature for at least an hour. Then turn off the oven. When the oven and the skillet cool to room temperature, inspect the skillet. If there are spots of plain steel showing, or if the entire surface of the skillet is Not Black and Smooth, and slick to the touch, repeat the process, until it becomes that smooth, black Greasy feeling surface (a dry grease- not gooey). With a properly seasoned frying pan/skillet, you can fry eggs on them, and the eggs won't stick to the pan.



In the 18th century, when barrels were forged from soft iron, the barrels were seasoned, often by the gunmaker. He would coat the rifling with a thick layer of fat, then heat the barrel up in his forge, and burn out the fat. What was left in the open pores of the iron bore was the "Seasoning", that prevented rusting inside the barrel.



I am sure that somewhere, in this country, someone is forging IRON barrels. The Possibility exists then, that a shooter could run into a modern made gun, made with a true Iron barrel. I can't imagine the cost of such a gun, considering the labor involved in making such a barrel using the old forging methods, and I would not fire such a gun, since there are cheaper, safer barreled guns available for shooting and hunting.


With Steel Barrels, any attempt at "seasoning" the barrel will only result in frustration, and in a clogged bore, that eventually looks like a smoothbore. The Grooves of the rifling fill up with charred residue, to the point that there appear to be NO more grooves.



This very thing has been observed these past 30 years, in Thompson/Center rifles, because that company's early loading manual spoke about just adding more "Wonderlube" to the barrel if a ball or bullet began to stick in the barrel because the barrel was not cleaned, or swabbed between shots. A lot of people, including members of this forum have made (and probably will continue to make) a lot of money buying up OLD T/C rifles, with the barrels "Shot out", for bottom prices. (The current T/C manual no longer carries that advice, I am told).



The gun barrels are taken out of the stocks, given a good soak for several days with soap and water, then scrubbed well with a bore brush to remove all the crud accumulated in the grooves of those barrels. It comes out in CHUNKS! Typically, when the barrels are CLEANED, they look as good as new, and shoot PRBs just fine. The guns are then sold for a nice profit.
[Plunge a piece of soft wire coat hanger, heated red hot, into a container of oil - any oil. The wire will come out with a smooth, Shiny Black coat on the surface, that is quite durable. It's the closest you can come with modern metals to see what a seasoned barrel WOULD look like].



Years ago, now, I offered to try to help a small local gunsmith, who had just opened up a New shop, get more business into his store, by getting the members of my local gun club to come out, on an Advertised Saturday, to offer to inspect and CLEAN and oil the guns of hunters intending to hunt in the up-coming seasons, for a nominal charge. He looked at me IN HORROR! He told me that if people actually cleaned, inspected, and oiled their guns, he would be OUT of BUSINESS!
He told me that a substantial part of his pre-hunting season business profit came from customers who brought their guns to him to be cleaned and oiled for the next season, having done nothing to them since the last one!



I was raised by a father who Insisted that our guns be cleaned as soon as we got home, and before we did anything else. He inspected our work, initially, and was as hard as any drill sergeant ever heard in Boot Camp.



I can't even imagine taking a dirty gun to a gunsmith, unless it was jammed, and I could not get the gun apart to clean it first. (That's not going to happen with any MLer I have). I would be embarrassed to take a dirty gun to my gunsmith. I obviously was raised in a different world.



If I had to give a truly SHORT answer to WHY we don't Season MLing barrels, It would be, that "we clean our steel barrels, so seasoning is never necessary (nor possible)". Cleanliness is next to Godliness, so goes the old Proverb. The context was different, but the wisdom is still sound.
 
I went smokeless yrs ago, and will never go back, but make sure it is legal in your area. Now all I do is clean after hunting season and shoot off and on till next season and start all over again.
 
Why We Don't Season Barrels Anymore
by
Paul H. Vallandigham
Periodically, some new shooter comes on the forum claiming that he needs to "SEASON" his barrel.
Today's modern barrels are made of STEEL, an alloy of iron and other metals, which produces a much harder metal. Muzzleloading barrels are made either of a soft alloy with lead in it to make it easy on the cutters (12L14), or harder steels, like 440 alloy steel, which withstands high pressures, but is harder on tool bits. They are not made of the iron that was used in the 18th century.


We don't season Steel, because its next to impossible to do (those pores in steel are filled with trace elements, so there is no room to allow oils or other substances to be burned into the pores), and its Not necessary for good accuracy, or to prevent rust. Simply running an oiled, or greased cleaning patch down the barrel AFTER seating a PRB on the powder charge, will protect the front portion of the bore from rusting.


Today, the most common IRON product to be found in a home is the Frying pan, or "Skillet" used to cook. Even those are becoming more rare- often only seen in camping equipment, rather than used in the home kitchen. Skillets are made of CAST IRON, which, unlike Wrought iron, have large PORES in the surface.



We SEASON cast iron skillets (but not steel, aluminum, or Teflon coated skillets) to fill the pores of the steel to prevent rusting (RUST adds a terrible taste to food), and to make a very smooth slick surface to use to cook certain foods, like Eggs.
To Season a Frying pan, or skillet, you first rub the surfaces of the skillet with shortening, or lard, or fat. Coat it liberally, so that you don't miss a spot. The place the greased skillet in an oven heated to 500 degrees!


Leave the skillet in the oven at that high temperature for at least an hour. Then turn off the oven. When the oven and the skillet cool to room temperature, inspect the skillet. If there are spots of plain steel showing, or if the entire surface of the skillet is Not Black and Smooth, and slick to the touch, repeat the process, until it becomes that smooth, black Greasy feeling surface (a dry grease- not gooey). With a properly seasoned frying pan/skillet, you can fry eggs on them, and the eggs won't stick to the pan.



In the 18th century, when barrels were forged from soft iron, the barrels were seasoned, often by the gunmaker. He would coat the rifling with a thick layer of fat, then heat the barrel up in his forge, and burn out the fat. What was left in the open pores of the iron bore was the "Seasoning", that prevented rusting inside the barrel.



I am sure that somewhere, in this country, someone is forging IRON barrels. The Possibility exists then, that a shooter could run into a modern made gun, made with a true Iron barrel. I can't imagine the cost of such a gun, considering the labor involved in making such a barrel using the old forging methods, and I would not fire such a gun, since there are cheaper, safer barreled guns available for shooting and hunting.


With Steel Barrels, any attempt at "seasoning" the barrel will only result in frustration, and in a clogged bore, that eventually looks like a smoothbore. The Grooves of the rifling fill up with charred residue, to the point that there appear to be NO more grooves.



This very thing has been observed these past 30 years, in Thompson/Center rifles, because that company's early loading manual spoke about just adding more "Wonderlube" to the barrel if a ball or bullet began to stick in the barrel because the barrel was not cleaned, or swabbed between shots. A lot of people, including members of this forum have made (and probably will continue to make) a lot of money buying up OLD T/C rifles, with the barrels "Shot out", for bottom prices. (The current T/C manual no longer carries that advice, I am told).



The gun barrels are taken out of the stocks, given a good soak for several days with soap and water, then scrubbed well with a bore brush to remove all the crud accumulated in the grooves of those barrels. It comes out in CHUNKS! Typically, when the barrels are CLEANED, they look as good as new, and shoot PRBs just fine. The guns are then sold for a nice profit.
[Plunge a piece of soft wire coat hanger, heated red hot, into a container of oil - any oil. The wire will come out with a smooth, Shiny Black coat on the surface, that is quite durable. It's the closest you can come with modern metals to see what a seasoned barrel WOULD look like].



Years ago, now, I offered to try to help a small local gunsmith, who had just opened up a New shop, get more business into his store, by getting the members of my local gun club to come out, on an Advertised Saturday, to offer to inspect and CLEAN and oil the guns of hunters intending to hunt in the up-coming seasons, for a nominal charge. He looked at me IN HORROR! He told me that if people actually cleaned, inspected, and oiled their guns, he would be OUT of BUSINESS!
He told me that a substantial part of his pre-hunting season business profit came from customers who brought their guns to him to be cleaned and oiled for the next season, having done nothing to them since the last one!



I was raised by a father who Insisted that our guns be cleaned as soon as we got home, and before we did anything else. He inspected our work, initially, and was as hard as any drill sergeant ever heard in Boot Camp.



I can't even imagine taking a dirty gun to a gunsmith, unless it was jammed, and I could not get the gun apart to clean it first. (That's not going to happen with any MLer I have). I would be embarrassed to take a dirty gun to my gunsmith. I obviously was raised in a different world.



If I had to give a truly SHORT answer to WHY we don't Season MLing barrels, It would be, that "we clean our steel barrels, so seasoning is never necessary (nor possible)". Cleanliness is next to Godliness, so goes the old Proverb. The context was different, but the wisdom is still sound.

Thank you, very informative. Reckon I'll stop worrying about trying to get the lube
 
Everyone has a different opinion. Sales people still sell muzzleloader cleaners at exorbitant prices, but soap and water is all you really need.

Here's a good link for how to shoot between shots. Using this method in my muzzleloader allows me to hunt with a clean barrel, because my first shot shoots the same as my last shot. Give it a try.
 
First off, inlines are a totally different animals that side locks and different rules apply for loading and cleaning.

IF you can get Blackhorn 209 powder that is THE standard for inlines and no one has anything close.

Alliant MZ was supposed to be similar but by most reviews has not lived up to the hype. You have to compress the loads, still has a crud ring and has very mixed reviews for accuracy and consistency. Here is one review below.

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/8918

There are a variety of websites other than here that specialize in muzzleloaders and testing the new powders, primers and bullets. Highly recommend you use google them spend some time on them.

TC's tend to on the tight side bore wise and you might run into problems with bullets. The Hornady 300 gr bullet should work, also the Barnes Spitfire EZ (which is made for tighter bores), the Thor bullets (come in various dimensions) and PR bullets (Canadian) would be the ones to go to.

Most have dropped all pellets due to lack of uniformity and 777 due to the crud ring build up that limits you to one shot before cleaning the bore and the primer issues (you cannot use a standard 209 primer, you must use a lower velocity muzzle loading primer). No need with BH 209 as it can be shot hundreds of times and has more energy and takes standard 209 primers. 120 gr BH 209 is equivalent to 150 gr 777.

My TC encore with 110 BH 209 and the Barnes Spitfire took a buck two weeks ago at 235 yards.
 
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