Need Help With Grizzly Bear Question

[Guest]

Dakor, If you place the bullet well, I believe the 200 TXS will kill the bear. Remember the Barnes does retain almost all its weight and is a solid copper projectile with those sharp petals. It is THE deadliest bullet I've ever seen. Those petals cause a large would channel and they penetrate deep.

I would try to shoot inside of 200 yards unless he in a wide open area because I'd worry more about him running into thick stuff that you don't want to go into after him. You know the old story of the guy with the 300 RUM that goes elk hunting and shoots the animal several times because he can't hit the broad side of the barn. Then there is the other story of the guy that shoots confidently with his 308 or 30-06 and takes the elk with no problem. There is no substitute for a well placed shot. I'm not preaching to you, I'm just agreeing with what I know your feeling.

One more thing, I mentioned that I would try to shoot within 200 yards, I would also try not to get closer that 100 yards. You'll need some time if he comes after you.

 

[dakor]

My brother in law will be packing a 300 also or a shot gun with slugs I will also have a 41 mag on my hip. My plan was if I see a bear I want to try shoot him from a spot that is hidden so if he doesnt go down at least he wont know where it is comming from. I talked to my dad tonight sounds like he is picking up a 375 H&H from a guy he knows he said I could Borrow it and practice with it and take it to Alaska if I wanted to. I will have to pick up some Barnes 235 Grain XLC's and see how I like it but I am going to take the gun I shoot the best out of the two. Thanks everyone for the information. On a side note if you are going to shoot a 460 Rigby you might as well take a 50 BMG it hits harder and probably kicks less

 

[Brent]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Bear jumped back to his feet and took off again. We both shot him again and he stayed down. Autopsy showed 2 from the 30-06 right behind the shoulder and 2 from the .375 in the shoulder. NEVER underestimate these bears ability to take a hit and keep going. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My buddy Bob hit his 10" BB 7 times as it came toward him from about 150 yards away where he finally died about 20 yards away from a spine shot entering just under the chin. Bob shot him 7 times with his 375 H&H and ran out of ammo on his last shot, with no back up. My brother was on a hill 1/4 mile off watching through a spotting scope as he wend down through the drainage trying to get sight of his Bear that was eating down there. Bob's first shot was a perfect broadside shot through "both" front shoulders, breaking them BOTH. The Bear got up, turned toward wher ethe shot came from and began running to it like he'd never been hit! Underestimate these suckers and you're in for a big surprise... Bob proceded to shoot him again and again as he came on him fast, thankfully he dropped with almost every shot. When he ran out of ammo in the mag, he began chambering them from his pocket one at a time until he felt for his last round. Derrick, my brother said, Bob just stopped shooting all of a sudden as the Bear got up and was fast closing the last bit of ground on him, Bob just got down on one knew and waited like a freak with a death wish as Derrick thought he ran out of ammo. Finally he saw the Bear go lifeless on his face and then heard the boom.

They said they had to gut and quater one side of the Bear because they couldn't roll the bear over to get the hide off of him, as both front legs were broke and they simply had no leverage on the huge Bear in the hole he was kind a laying down in.

As you can see, Bears don't always stop running when even both front legs are broke, and will often drag their rear end faster than you could ever think of running with their front legs if shot in the spine farther back, and they will circle in the brush then lie in wait for you too! They're SMART!

My brothers Bear took 4 from the 338 WM, and 3 from the 375 H&H before it stayed down for good, it did not run toward them but away.

Section density don't mean much when you already have enough to go one side through to the other, but I understand where you're coming from on it. Bullet diameter has much more effect than most people realize until they see it for themself. 40 caliber on up is where it really becomes quite noticable.

In the 338's we use 250gr Barnes X bullets, and I'd use them in the 300's as well, but I don't go after Grizz with my 30's.

I would shoot one with my 300 Ultra, or a 300 WM, but I would have to be totally comfortable with the situation first, just not my choice for big Bear is all.

I like John's last statement a lot.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> One more thing, I mentioned that I would try to shoot within 200 yards, I would also try not to get closer that 100 yards. You'll need some time if he comes after you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a 454 Casull for back up, but I hope to never have to use the little thing.

00 Buck on Bear, I'd use slugs unless you just want to tear some hide off it's face. I know people load it, but I wouldn't trust it on anything but Black Bear or home intruders.

 

[Guest]

Dakor, Brent has a lot more experience that me and I respect his opinion a lot. I agree, definitely use the barnes in your win mag and I'd use slugs instead of 00 buckshot. If you have a rifled barrel shotgun try "lightfield commander" impact discarding sabots (IDS). Trust me on this, I hunt deer in a shotgun only area.
If you don't have a rifled barreled shotgun then don't bother with sabots because they won't shoot..use regular slugs. Me personally, I'd like a handgun as well and I also load that with barnes bullets.

A side note about handguns...put in earplugs....they kill my ears worse than any muzzle brake ever will.

I forgot which show, but I saw a woman bowhunt a grizz from 30 yards in Alaska. To quote the comedian Andrew Dice Clay "For a chick, you got some set of balls!"

There is also a great video on this forum where a guy shoots a lion and the lion charges him and they keep missing. The lion knocks the guy down and runs away as the guide finished him off.

 

[Ceejack2]

Hello Dakor, I to am wondering why the 338 is supose to be harder hitting? I was trying to decide between the 300rum & 338rum but noticed I could get flatter trajectories as well as more muzzle energy. Also I read an article in a bow hunting magazine that said as a back-up gun alot of people were using big calibur handguns but the best thing was a shotgun with oobuck shot because in case of an emergency it could take half of a bears head off.

 

[Ceejack2]

oobuck just taking off some hide, taking multiple hits from a 338 & 375, I wanted to do a moose hunt but I'm starting to get a realization of what I could be up against running ariund in bear country. So do you think my 450 Marlin would be safer or should something bigger be used?(50cal)smile.

 

[dakor]

John you have it right " They kept Missing" I saw that video and if someone would have hit him he wouldnt have made it that close. I believe that is were knowing your rifle and being able to shoot it well comes into play. The guy also made a bad shot the first time he hit him. I don't shoot real big canons as well as my smaller ones. If that was me with a lion charging give me my 7MM STW with a 160 Barnes TSX any day over a 416 at least I know I could hit him I dont think I could with the 416. As for a Brown Bear taking 7 shots to kill. I am wondering did you see the hide of the bear? and was there 7 holes in it or was it one of those deals were somebody got scared (wich I dont blame them one bit) and missed a few times and connected on a few? Also I can believe a bear charged on one busted shoulder but it is not going anywhere with two shoulders that are broke no animal is plain and simple I have seen deer with two busted front shoulders push them selves along on their face and black bears roll around but they didnt go very far. I would say that he broke one of shoulders on the last shot that killed the bear its not like they had time to say I am going to shoot him 3 inches under his right eye on shot # 8. They were shooting at center mass and they cannot honestly tell you where they hit after the charge began. I am not trying to be an *** I just have hunted long enough to know you dont have time to think you react.

[ 04-15-2004: Message edited by: dakor ]

 

[Guest]

Dakor, the interesting thing about the lion video is that the guide kept missing too! I would at least want a guide that was a better shot!

If you can shoot your 300WM well with the 200 TXS, use it. Don't waste time with the 375 H&H because you won't like even before you shoot it the first time. Keep it as a back up along with the other weapons and have fun.

Just make sure you post pictures!

....a 300 WM with the 200 TSX is not a 375 or 416, but its NOT small bore!

[ 04-15-2004: Message edited by: John M. ]

 

[Brent]

Dakor,

I'll tell ya a little story about Bob.
Him, his wife Cindy, the kids, Samantha, and Christopher went fishing way up the Big Susitna River last summer. They got unloaded and some of the gear up on the bank above the high water mark real late in the evening, almost dark by now. Bob heard freak out and turned around to see a young Grizz coming out of the water next to the boat... which still had his rifle down in it. The Grizz moved up toward camp at a walk, when Bob launched at a dead run to the Grizz with both arms waving and yelling and roaring at the top of his lungs to intimidate him! He said at about 20' away the Bear finally bolted back into the water and he was able grab his rifle. They never saw the Bear the rest of the trip. If it would have been an older Grizz he wouldn't have spooked off like that though, more than likely. Bob didn't have much of a choice though, it was either that of they were obviously LUNCH.

Bob usually hunts alone with Rosco, his English Mastiff, but this was a fly out hunt they were on this time and Rosco stayed home. Bob don't get ruffled over much, even Bear. When he dropped to one knee and killed that BB it was calculated and deliberate. He knew that Bear would have him burried before my brother ever got down to him. His Bear did have 7 holes in him, and both upper leg bones completely shattered and the wound channel was very clear it had been his first shot when broadside. Gutting and quatering him they seen all this clearly. The shot into the spine was the last shot.

I did not see the bear hide until after Bob finished the lifesize mount, but Bob does not lie, or exagerate the truth.

I understand your skepticism, I don't believe everything I'm told either. Some people's love of telling a story is greater than their love of the simple truth. Take what I said for what it's worth, at the very least it's in the back of your mind...

Wish you a one shot kill, wish me the same, God knows that's what I hope for.

Good luck on you hunt.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

trader 338,

That it from a guy who weighs 150lbs soaking wet. The 460Wby is a pussycat when loaded with 300gr hollowpoints at full throttle. Its my 2nd favorite groundhog cartridge. I use the .221 after the 460Wby has made all the holes.

VH

 

[matcannava]

You know...since this is the 'world-wide' web and reading through this thread might give one the impression that simply stepping off the plane in Alaska means you're walking amongst all these motivated, agitated bruins that only want to eat you....

Having lived, hiked, fished and camped here in Alaska since '72 every bear my brothers and I have run in to was a hell of a lot more scared of us than we were of them.

Obviously in that rare instance when TSHTF you want alot of firepower to knock the bear down, but a well-placed shot from a 300WM is a good choice for hunting bruins.

Again, granted there are exceptions, but the 'tone' of this thread reminds me of the Far Side where the bear is shot drinking from the stream and then the mount shows this ferocious killer with it's teeth bared.

Among those not accustomed to living in bear country it might tend to stoke the 'bearanoia' that leads to bears being killed in otherwise mundane, non-threatening situations.

(Brent-that guy at McHugh Creek last year who claimed the black bears were 'stalking' him...case in point)

 

[Brent]

Reading the thread at AR, here and ones in the past, I really think most have some misconception of Bears and Alaska hunting to a larger degree than maybe other areas of the country.

One major thing is that Alaska is really spread out, game populations are dense in areas and practically non-existant in a lot of places. Finding a place with good Bear, Moose populations or what have you is probably a major problem for the guy that has little time and money to spend in Alaska on a hunt.

When Len came up here Moose hunting, I'm sure he was in a really good area for a trophy animal, probably many of them, as Wayne Kubat has a really good spot for his clients, as many of them do, and they're pretty tight lipped about the locations... for good reason.

I know of several good locations for interior Grizzly if you have a boat and or a guide. If I wanted a great opportunity for a big Bear, Bou, and Moose though, I'd hit Anchorage and jump on a plane to King Salmon and charter a flight with Sea Air to the same location my Brother and Bob went. Of course Dakor would have to take his brother along to be legal without a guide, but for airfair and drop off and pick up a couple thousand a piece at most. that is a good price for a great chance at a big Bear, Bou and Moose.

Dakor,
I don't think you'll have too much luck hunting Grizz near Wasilla, I'd head to Talkeetna on that wheeler, back to the mountains and hunt there. You're at a huge disadvantage that you're Brother in law isn't a big hunter with the area already mapped out and in his back pocket. The area is so vast up here, you really have to be an avid hunter for a few years in one area to really learn where the game is, and is not.

Bears are much more affraid of people than most realize, and they will shy away from people at almost every turn though. Beware of the Sow with Cubs! If you startle any of them, be prepared, as it could get ugly in a blink of an eye! If you get attacked by a Bear, 99% of the time it's is out of the Bear's intense fear of you, or protecting a kill. Very few will stalk a man from onset. The ones that have scare people into paranoia. Far more dangerous to be around humans, like a couple feet away from them heading in opposite dirrections down the hiway at a combined speed of over 100 miles an hour!

 

[dakor]

Yeah I know I probably wont get a Brown when I am up there but I can always shoot a black bear or a Moose with the brown Bear tag. I will just have to make a trip every year until I get my Brown Bear

So you dont think the Wisilla area is any good is there a reason why? Hunting pressure? I talked to some people from the Game and Fish up there and they said there was a good population of bears up there but you know how that can go sometimes

I will be up there for 16 days so I hope I can get something when I am up there. We probably will mostly hike in for the day that kinda thing so if anyone wants to share an area to try feel free. I was looking in the area you pointed out but the four wheeler is not a for sure thing. I would be willing to try north of Wisilla if I could get in there by foot.

 

[Brent]

Dakor,

There's better areas is all. The population of Grizz near the Wasilla area will only be higher where you'll never make it to on foot or even by wheeler in all likelyhood. Not so much hunting pressure at all, human population in that area is too great until you get on up the hiway near Willow and Talkeetna area, over by the mountains especially. There's quite a lot of Grizz in that area, my buddy Russell sees them all the time up there. He hunts Moose up there quite often. That's the place I'd head if I was real serious about getting one, great place for Moose too. Try like hell for the wheeler if at all possible, makes getting into the more remote areas much more feasable, especially if day hunting in many areas. I hunt down east of Palmer up Knik Glacier area. Moose is good hunting so I stay around home here mainly, Black Bear is good also. We're going to set some bait again tonight. Grizzly is just few and far between around this spot though, they are here, just takes wheelers to get back there and more time than they're worth. I see them every year, about one a year is all though. Generally I'm up on the mountain and they're way out in the swamps and gone fast as you see them.

There is another area, but you need a boat. I hear it's pretty thick with Grizz, enough so I wonder about camping out there even with some big rifles. They say the Bears there just don't leave you alone at all. I'd really love to go there but I don't have a boat myself. It'll happen soon though, I'm "dieing" to see the place.