Neck Tension & New Cases

[CaptnC]

FC...you think about changing the powder?

I'm a self admitted novice at precision loading. But I have learned a few thing along the way.

Some say it's a waste of time to sort brass, some say you must do it...sort bullets...etc...etc...

But I feel like these guys are trying to take a .5 moa down to .3 moa or even tighter.

IMO... .75 MOA is not as tough to reach with common loading practices. Sure some rifles just won't do it, but I believe most will. Especially if care has be taken to set the stock/action/bedding correctly. Scope/rings/hardware all tight and aglined properly. Everything torqued to spec.

This past weekend I took a new self build out to break in the barrel. I have new brass that is waiting in the wings to be brought into action, but I wanted some throw down brass for hunting and breakin. Made deal to trade an AR part for 40 pieces of brass.

When I went to work that brass almost half never survived to getting a primer. Necks split and I had one neck pull off completely.

The 25 remaining pieces were loaded and went to the range.....

These cases were the results...some didn't fail but most did. I didn't take a picture of my target...in a hurry...but shots 17, 18, 19 and 20...three were touching and one was 1/4" away. Easily a .5 moa group...with a budget 264wm build at that. ER Shaw kit barrel in a donor 110 action. And zero load development.

OH...the above brass is a mix of manufacturers. I had everything working against me for shooting a tight group and the rifle did any way...

I'm not saying all the tips above are not necessary. They are if you plan to take it to that level of accuracy. But I don't think neck tension will drop a 1.25 moa to a .3 moa without some other adjustments. That said...neck tension is the gateway that leads to .3 moa and smaller. I don't believe you can consistently shoot that tight a group without proper neck tension.

During breakin...I took two powders and three bullets with three different powder charges...only one combo shot tight...the others were everywhere.

Will I be annealing cases and turning necks...yes sir I will!

 

[Gord0]

I've been having great luck with Sig brass. Weights from 3 different lots all within +-1gr. All necks measured a max of .0005 thickness variance. Had a couple primer pockets get a little on the loose side when I got up there in a couple ladder tests. Running a fairly stout load now and my brass is on its 7th firing and going strong.

 

[Full Curl]

Two of the hardest steps to accept in reloading for precision: Annealing and Neck Turning

So true. I've accepted the annealing, but still not neck turning yet since I've been able to get to where I want without the need to turn in my other rigs, but this one is proving to be very difficult.

 

[Full Curl]

Are you shooting a factory barrel?
How much did you tighten the action to the stock?
How much more different are the tight cases shooting then the smooth loading ones?

Yes, factory barrel. Gunsmith tightened action to stock after floating and bedding new stock. I did check the action bolts just to make sure they were not loose and they were not. 1.25" - 2" groups with tight cases and 0.8" - 1.25" with smooth loading. After switching to nosler 2nd and 3rd firing cases, I was able to drop it to about 0.8" pretty consistently. Be interesting to see where the new Norma cases fit into the mix when they arrive.

 

[Full Curl]

CaptnC - Good points. Sometimes I think we can get far too carried away chasing a goal that can never realistically be achieved, consistently anyway. My goal with this rig is 0.75" MOA. If I can get closer to 0.5" great, but so far it's looking like 0.75" is much more realistic and will be more than sufficient for primarily a hunting rig. I've been able to achieve at least 0.75" with all the previous rifles I've developed loads for over the last 10 or so years without too much trouble. This one is proving to be the most challenging thus far, but I'm finally getting close. Going to play with seating depth to see if I can gain that last little bit and tag out with this one. I'll be happy if I can get to 0.75".

 

[newmexkid]

Don't know if I missed it...Which powder are you using?

 

[TwoMore]

Just an observation, you can tell me to get lost but if my brass was loosing pocket tension and my groups were over 1 minute I would lower my load or use a slower powder and find that lower pressure node . I have to use Win brass on the 7mm WSM and I very seldom loosen pockets. Not saying win brass is the Tits lol cuz its not but like I said I have to run it, I tried Norma 270 wsm brass and fire formed it up, but 270-300 WSM brass is .004 bigger at the base and I run into hard camming bolt lift after firing, its not a pressure thing either, the brass is tight in my chamber

 

[CaptnC]

Deleted...

 

[g0rd0]

with the high cost of new brass plus components what I do for a new rifle is buy 10 boxes of fed ammo, use that to break in the barrel then I have 200 pieces of fire formed brass for reloading

 

[Gord0]

with the high cost of new brass plus components what I do for a new rifle is buy 10 boxes of fed ammo, use that to break in the barrel then I have 200 pieces of fire formed brass for reloading

That's why I'm really liking this Sig brass. $37 for a bag of 50 and very very consistent. It appears to be thicker than some so lighter charges are getting a bit more speed.

 

[CaptnC]

with the high cost of new brass plus components what I do for a new rifle is buy 10 boxes of fed ammo, use that to break in the barrel then I have 200 pieces of fire formed brass for reloading

Depending on the caliber 10 boxes of ammo is pretty high...264wm is hard to find. I think the cheapest I've found was $28.00 a box...6.5-06 NONE available, loaded or new brass
...7mm RUM is about $60.00 a box...

My 300wsm I almost didn't reload for it...I found it for $23.00 a box of 20...

 

[Full Curl]

Don't know if I missed it...Which powder are you using?

Tested H4831SC, H1000, MagPro, RL19, RL22, and Ramshot Mag.

 

[Full Curl]

Just an observation, you can tell me to get lost but if my brass was loosing pocket tension and my groups were over 1 minute I would lower my load or use a slower powder and find that lower pressure node . I have to use Win brass on the 7mm WSM and I very seldom loosen pockets. Not saying win brass is the Tits lol cuz its not but like I said I have to run it, I tried Norma 270 wsm brass and fire formed it up, but 270-300 WSM brass is .004 bigger at the base and I run into hard camming bolt lift after firing, its not a pressure thing either, the brass is tight in my chamber

This is pretty much where I started... I found a somewhat "okay" lower pressure node but it was not as accurate or consistent as others I found higher. I only found one good node near max and one a couple grains below it. I've been working with that one. I'm so use to Norma brass in my other rigs and the tight pocket feel when priming that this Win feels like putting a 3/8" drill bit in a 1/2" drilled hole. Good, bad, or indifferent, I've lost all confidence in this Win brass and it's too late to get it back. My NOrma cases arrived today... hopefully get a chance to start prepping them Sunday.

 

[CaptnC]

Tested H4831SC, H1000, MagPro, RL19, RL22, and Ramshot Mag.

Pretty well thought approach...most of the top choices, 4 that are on my loading bench shelf...you really don't want to hear where this would if it was mine.

OK....bare minimum dig out the bedding and do it over. My next move if that didn't help...new pipe!

Your patients is admirable because I would have went to work on the rifle side of the issue.