My thoughts on Long-range shooting/hunting

[Allen Kitts]

Thanks for the great post. I agree with what you have said as well. You can't shoot well if you don't have the right equipment to complete the task. The most important part to me is the practice. I know guys that every year go to the range the weekend before the rifle season check their 100 yard zero and then think they are good to "infinity and beyond". My buddies and I shoot 20-30 weekends a year and fortunately for us we can shoot out to 600 yards at the local range. This practice in invaluable when the time comes to pull the trigger on game animals. Unfortunately for me a few years back I made the mistake of thinking I was the 1000 yards shooting god and shot and lost a beautiful spring buck in South Africa. I knocked it off it feet with a 180 grain Berger out of my LRM at 916 yards. Myself and my two friends, one being the PH as well as the two trackers were so excited at the shot I had made that nobody kept their eye on the prize. The spring buck must have gotten up and ran into the brush. It was wide open country with lots of small acacia. We looked for two days to no avail. It absolutely made me sick. All the practice and preparation down the tubes because I didn't do my job as a hunter and keep my eye on the animal. Great equipment is a big part of it but practice, practice, practice, in my opinion is really what brings home the bacon. Now I do not shoot at game beyond 600 yards. At that distance I know I am 100 percent proficient at the range shooting from the sitting, kneeling and prone positions. Thankfully all of that practice has transferred to my field shooting as well.

 

[Dirtrax]

^^^

"I don't pay too much attention to what's happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there."

TOF @ 1000 can be 1.0 seconds or more. Paper targets vs. mobile creatures.

I didn't contend he ended the debate entirely regarding wind, but ballistics data is commonly available so no real news with TOF.
I recommend y'all go back and read about Len Backus and the founding of this forum.

 

[yobuck]

There's definitely opportunity for some very long shots here in the pnw but man, there's no splashes, sometimes almost impossible to see vapor trails and the hills make for some impossible wind calls. Even if you shoot a lot in the same spot you soon realize there's some luck involved. The high power silhouette competition I've watched is pretty cool just the glass they use to see the vapor trails.

You are probably using the wrong equipment for seeing the hits.
There is always some type of a disturbance when the bullet makes impact.
And not all spotters are created equal when it comes to seeing hits.
Even on things like wet leaves there is a disturbance.
1 inch of snow can be very helpfull, but 6 inches just the oposite.
It takes practice to become a good spotter, same as it does to be a good shooter.
A gun is actually secondary to good optics when long range hunting.
As for vapor trails, they will put you in the ball park, but dont get hung up on watching them, especially at the longer distances.
Hits are the important thing.
At the longer distances, you will often lose the vapor trail at the apex of the trajectory, and by that time the bullet has made impact.
So you need to develop the ability to be watching the vapor trail and looking at the target area for a hit at the same time.

 

[nealm66]

Ya, no. It's mostly brush

 

[nealm66]

Here's a logging job I'm on. You could let off an m80 50 yards away and probably not see it

 

[nealm66]

This is like a park compared to mos of our hunting area

 

[nealm66]

Like shooting in a hayfield

 

[nealm66]

Don't get me wrong. My buddy over in Moses lake says those coyotes are bookin at a mile away these days when they used to watch you for a bit.

 

[wjm1000]

While ive never met the O P, i know who he is, as we have had some of the same aquaintences.
Dont doubt what he has said, but i feel he has left some very important things unsaid.
First off 1000 yd target shooting isnt the same as hunting long range.
Yes, both require good equipment and good shooting.
But frankly good target shooters arent necessarily always the best at killing animals at the long distances.
Fact is that most of the successful long range hunters ive known have never fired at shot in competition.
Fact also is that a large percentage of the deer killed at long range in our camp over more than 50 years were shot by kids too young to drive a car.
But they werent too young to ( listen ), to what they were being told by ( the spotter ).
The OP wouldnt have known he hit those tree branches unless he had been told he did, by a ( spotter ).
If average Joe hunter has a rifle and load plus the ability to consistently shoot groups of 1 inch or less from a bench, then he can also kill animals at very long distances.
Provided he uses the same shooting method, and listens to his spotter.
It aint hard folks, and if it were most people couldnt do it.
And thats another fact. lol

You are correct on having a good spotter. Like I told some my hunting partners that I spot for "I could train a monkey to pull the trigger".

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We shot quite a few animals at long range. Our farthest was a muley at 1280y. There was a couple of times that we spotted animals and then backed away in order to get a longer shot. It was the game that we were playing at the time. The truth is none of the long range shots we made we couldn't have gotten closer. We never lost an animal but I am a numbers guy and I know every time I pull the trigger on a long range shot the odds are going up that I will mess it up. I now have kind of imposed a 700y limit to myself. I figure I have pretty good control to that distance. Assuming the conditions are good. I'm not saying that I will never take a long shot on game again but I think if I do, I will take a sighter on a rock or something first and get my read off of that. If the animal doesn't hang around after the sighter then it wasn't meant to be.

As hunters our first obligation is to make a decision whether or not we should pull the trigger. Deciding not to is honorable.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have to add to that. I am in no way preaching any kind of ethics. That is just where I am in my long range hunting pursuit. I also agree with the OP on his statements. Spot on.

 

[dogz]

That's not for my taste and Len does not like or allow ethics discussions, but seems you have the skills, tools and the horsepower. Agree with your summary on tools completely and that the true weakest link is the shooter or as Bravo4 said the nut behind the trigger -aka- the dope behind the gun, not the dope on the gun.

The nut behind the but and his practice is always the link be it weak or be it strong, then it comes down to gear, and understanding wind and angles (out here in the west we can deal with some pretty strong angles). Up and down is easy with a good LRF, a good reading and a good repeatable scope.

Shooting at steel, rocks etc I'll shoot from here to the moon. On living creatures for me I stay within my comfort zone of being 110 % sure of a first round, one shot down and out kill before I drop the hammer.

Just my way, doesn't need be anyone else's

 

[yobuck]

You are correct on having a good spotter. Like I told some my hunting partners that I spot for "I could train a monkey to pull the trigger".

Well again, even though we have never met i know how you hunt.
Its simply a question of having the right equipment including a good spotter, or forgetting about long range hunting.
In fact the more eyes you have looking for hits thru very good optics, the better off you are.
Now to be fair, much depends upon the type of locations we hunt.
And what is considered to be long range based upon that.
Not everybody has hilly or steep mountainous terrain to hunt in.
Certainly seeing hits on the side of a steep hill is far different than trying to see them on flat terrain.
If you miss a groundhog standing in a hay field at 400 yards, you will pretty much know why.
But put that same groundhog at 800 yards and you wont know anything.
Unless you have a spotter.

 

[yobuck]

We shot quite a few animals at long range. Our farthest was a muley at 1280y. There was a couple of times that we spotted animals and then backed away in order to get a longer shot. It was the game that we were playing at the time. The truth is none of the long range shots we made we couldn't have gotten closer. We never lost an animal but I am a numbers guy and I know every time I pull the trigger on a long range shot the odds are going up that I will mess it up. I now have kind of imposed a 700y limit to myself. I figure I have pretty good control to that distance. Assuming the conditions are good. I'm not saying that I will never take a long shot on game again but I think if I do, I will take a sighter on a rock or something first and get my read off of that. If the animal doesn't hang around after the sighter then it wasn't meant to be.

As hunters our first obligation is to make a decision whether or not we should pull the trigger. Deciding not to is honorable.

You have a good philosify on long range shooting at live animals.
Wether or not we choose to shoot is a personal call, and should be based upon things other than personal ego.

As for the sighter shot.
I dont personally know a single LR hunter, and i have known many, who use any thing more than a basic drop chart for long range hunting.
No wind meter, no anything, other than a drop chart.
I have personally never even seen a Kestral, other than pictures of them.
Whitetail deer rarely run, or at least run far, even with a very close miss.
Unless of coarse they have been hit.
And a close miss is actually a sighter shot.
Nothing better than a sighter shot. PERIOD.
And yes we sometimes pick a close target before we send one at the animal, especially at the longer distances.