We've all heard the ole saying......there are lures to catch fish and then there are lures to catch fisherman.....I'm somewhere in the middle.
My long winded thoughts on annealing
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We've all heard the ole saying......there are lures to catch fish and then there are lures to catch fisherman.....I'm somewhere in the middle.
I agree most can't shoot the difference. Some can. Erik did. It was a test just to see if one may actually be better. What he found was one did have an edge over the other.
In the end, a guy needs to do what is best for him. Erik isn't selling anything, nor am I.
If I were a competitive shooter, or were spending $20K on hunt that will have a ELR shot, I would want to have every advantage. On the other hand, ALL my rifles shoot better than I can, so, flame is good enough for me! You decide what is good enough for you!
You can believe the difference was annealing all you want. From that test nothing can be definitively determined. Me, you, nor EC can shoot the difference based on 10psi variation of seating pressure at 1k.
I've known Erik for a long time, he's a friend and a great shooter, no way in the world I would crum him but.......he gets paid for Youtube content.
The engineer in my has to come out: 1) 10 is not a statiscally big enough sample. 2) the projectiles and the cases, have not been tested for mass, OD, unformity. 3) Primers can vary. 4) Powder accuracy. 5) User bias. You learn about this in setting up experiments for statistics.
There are more...but I think you get the point.
Like I said, only YOU can decide what is good for YOU!
Ok. You're definitely free to your opinion. I don't for a minute believe he's manipulating his content just to get likes and subscriptions to make money. Erik has a lot more going on in his life to worry about making money off YouTube. That doesn't mean he's not happy to make something off of it for his efforts though.
I didn't post his video, or any of them. I don't think it's the most scientific evidence or anything you can draw a definitive conclusion from. It's still a good video and a good test. Statistically, you'd need to repeat the results a lot more and see repeatable results before you could really draw any conclusions. It merely gives you an idea of what you might experience with one over the other.
There are other factors to consider as well even just as far as how easy one is to use over the other. No turning the lights off, adjusting flame nozzles, filling up tanks, etc with an AMP, and even other induction type annealers. With the AMP, part of what you're getting with all that money is ease of use and taking out all the guesswork. You simply use the appropriate pilot for your particular cartridge, input the appropriate code (or use Aztec to obtain it), then you just hit "run" and you're off- applying a perfect anneal every time with very minimal effort.
Say what you want, think what you want, and definitely use what you want- or don't. I'm just posting up thoughts and information for those it might be useful to. Annealing is something I've come to really appreciate and it's absolutely given me an increase in performance and consistency from my ammo. I personally know many others that are in the same boat. I know lots of others that have FAR many more things they need to improve and work on before annealing will do them any justice. For those guys, I definitely don't recommend going out and buying or building anything for annealing. I recommend they stick with the basics and if they do want to improve, improve on the basics first and add a little at a time. Annealing is one of the last things I'd recommend.
Hey boss don't put words in my mouth...I never said such thing.
I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. Just elaborating on what seemed to be implied is all. I said I don't believe he's manipulating his content. I didn't say, or mean to say, you think he does. I just said that I don't believe he does. What exactly did you mean by "….he gets paid for YouTube content" then?
DoneNOut
Well-Known Member
For a bumpkin like me, who doesn't neck turn, check concentricity, weigh brass, and barely balance a check book, I still see a benefit from annealing. Annealing some 4X fired brass made a considerable difference in bullet seating vs non-annealed. The case necks of the brass before annealing required significant force to seat the bullet. After annealing, they were normal seating force. (Before reading up on annealing I thought my RCBS die was faulty, LOL) I get more consistent CBTO measurements too. I'd like to say groups shrank, but not enough data on that yet.
I just use a cordless drill with socket extension chucked in with a blow torch. Go 5-8 seconds depending on brass brand. Takes a bit of practice to get consistency like drill speed, flame position, and time. Done right, I get just the right coloration without getting the bluing ring below the case shoulder. I barely need to use the Mississippi counting style anymore. I can just tell if it's done where I like it by the flame and brass coloration. All art, no science. LOL
I will never be a competitive shooter nor ever pay even 2k for a hunt with a need to justify spending 1000's on MUST HAVE equipment. Even if I have to be able to kill what I'm shooting at with the first shot at 1000 yards or 1 yard.
No one NEEDS to anneal. No one NEEDS anything fancy. Technology advances and certain advancements make certain things better or doing a certain thing better. Technology isn't for everyone, and it's definitely not required. If annealing, or any other similar type things, isn't your thing, that's fine by me.
All bottleneck brass gets annealed at the factory. It is a necessary thing. To anneal again on reloads is up to the reloader, as well as how he/she does it.
You can find a great factory load that shoots amazing with your rifle and go out on a once in a lifetime hunt and use it to shoot a trophy at 1000 yards. No messing with fancy equipment needed there at all. You can do it with reloads that you didn't re-anneal too. I'm not here at all saying you need to do it and you also need the best and most expensive method of doing it.
I do recommend annealing, and I do recommend a certain method. That is what is discussed here, and that's really it.
I never implied he manipulated his results nor would I. His character and integrity are beyond reproach. I say this as a friend and fellow competitor. So you need to shut that BS down.
He produces Youtube content that he believes to be the best in his OPINION, and gets paid for such content based on views....(and that is me assuming how YT works...you know what they say about assuming) Nothing wrong with that at all. Doesn't mean someone can't a different opinon.....and it certainly doesn't make if factual.
The part where I disagreed is the difference between the flame vs. AMP vs seating pressure difference and the results.....again I will state neither YOU, ME, nor EC can shoot the 10psi seating pressure difference.
