MT going to cut loose on wolves!!!

[Gone Ballistic]

We used to hunt up the East Fork in the Germania Creek and Wikiup Creek areas. We'd ride up close to 3000 verticle feet from our base camp on Germania Creek. My friend's fathers started hunting up there when they were young asnd tradition held on. There used to be so many Muleys in that area it was a two deer area for years. Elk were everywhere and we went over threee decades with everyone drawing and filling their tags. There were always more tags available that hunters applying for them. Many times we had friends put in on the second drawing and they drew without a problem. That's where we saw our first pack of wolves. The Feds shot out the first pack due to attacks on cattle but they were quickly replaced by another pack. The elk started diminishing at a rapid pace from 02 on and the last time I was up there by the guard station where they wintered we didn't cut an elk track riding all the way to the top of the headwaters. Used to see at least several hundred elk wintering in that area before the turn of the century. We didn't kill one elk the last time we hunted up there in 2006.
I love elk hunting and I love watching elk. I only like looking at a wolf through my crosshairs anymore. They too are a beautiful animal but they just don't belong here anymore. They kill just to kill, I've witnessed that, and are probably the most intelligent predator man has to contend with. The real deal of a killing machine and aren't afraid of another creature but man.
If you're in the Salmon River country then you really know how they've devastated the Sawtooth Eco System.

 

[Gone Ballistic]

I really don't know how you can say that hunters didn't put any dent in them during that one season. They took a goodly number in a fairly small percentage of the overall ecosytem that they were allowed to hunt in! Any G&F Agency puts out a certain number of tags for any particular animal in a given area knowing that a certain percentage won't be used, a certain percentage will be used by those not knowing how to hunt the target animal, etc. To say what you did really isn't accurate without knowing a lot more facts like how many actually hunted, etc. The other fact that you fail to mention is that it is commonly known that one of the antis tactics now is buying tags and permits to decrease the percentage of legitimate hunters who will actually be in the field. I wouldn't doubt it one bit that they have even killed a few wolves themselves to help further their agenda. That agenda has nothing to do with animal welfare or they would see that the elk population is going down the tubes. True fact is that they don't give a s***!!!

Topgun, Idaho didn't have a limit on the tags they sold. They had quotas on certain areas that once a certain number of kills were made in that area, wolf hunting was closed in that area. Very similar to what Montana did. What I was alluding to when I said it didn't make a dent in them is that it hasn't brought their numbers down noticably. Their breeding habits replenished what was taken by hunters and then some. The F&G just reported that their numbers are starting to stabilize in some areas. Well go figure! Once they've wiped out their food base in that area what did they think would happen?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I didn't realize the tags were unlimited, even from all of my reading on the subject. However, I was aware of the numbers they were shooting for (literally!) and would shut off the hunt before the season closing date if those were met, which they weren't. I know you have to kill a large number to eliminate expansion of overall numbers and that wasn't met, but let's at least say it put a "small" dent in their numbers and better than nothing. G&F does that with cougars and other animals where they have a harvest quotas on an animal or a lot of times on the females and close the season when that is met. That is basically what they did, or would have done, on this wolf hunt. You did mention the scary part of this whole scenario in that when the food supply isn't adequate they will most certainly be on the move like they are already to some extent, but it will be even worse when that happens and it will happen in the not too distant future if we don't win this thing!!!

 

[Gone Ballistic]

I read in todays paper that the feds have dropped their lawsuit against Wyoming and are wanting Wyoming to start managing the wolf program for them. Apparently they felt that the lawsuit would be counter productive and waste too much time that was needed to get things in place. Hmm, maybe Wyoming might be able to start making some headway. I still think that they're going to have to change their "shoot on sight" strategy and move to Idaho's and Montana's module.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

That's hard to believe and great if it's true! Maybe state rights will win out yet in these battle with the feds. I think you may be right and if this new Governor is smart he will get on the ball and get things doen so they can be delisted. Then they can get started culling where needed and just do the SSS out side the boundary areas and hope no fed catches anybody!!!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I just found out it is true and was dropped by the Feds yesterday! There is an article in today's Jackson Hole newspaper on it. It looks like there is a good chance that things will progress rapidly and I hope Wyoming is smart this time and will even modify that predator status if they have to in order to get the deal done and the friggin things delisted. Then maybe all three states can start wacking away and getting them to acceptable numbers so the game herds and livestock aren't harmed any more than necessary.

 

[HARPERC]

It's pretty tough for me to believe the Feds about anything, much less anything surrounding this issue. It has been one big lie after another. First lie was prior to reintroduction claiming no wolves existed in the specified area, in spite of having the carcasses. I suspect a PR ploy where Wyoming doesn't "do it right" and the Feds can ride to the rescue. Or the certain knowledge the anti groups will take it to court for them, and the politicians can shift the blame.
Wyoming has taken a bit of a hit in the press for it's stand on the Wolf issue. I hear about "give and take" but really fail to see our take. The states that caved in are no better off, now than if they had stood on principle from the beginning. Wyoming did not plant wolves in Idaho or Montana keep the blame focussed on who did.
According to this months HUNTING ILLUSTRATED, Idaho sold about 26,000 wolf tags, killed 188, had about a 0.7% success rate, and netted about $423,000. This will not begin to cover their losses in this debacle.
Washington and Oregon committed to this save the predator (bears and lions) mentality years ago. Now both states are claiming low game numbers low revenues, and trying to shift the blame to "poaching" yet published cherry picked numbers about all they come up with is some technical violations (wrong broadhead etc.). Our predator season gets shorter and shorter while big game numbers fall. Even B.C. quit sending us endangered Woodland Caribou because they just seemed to end up cat chow, funny closing all the access roads didn't seem to help.
Once the game departments are totally dependent on Federal money how responsive do you think they'll be to residents ?
Also, question the "sportsmens groups" you belong to, shake them out of their go along get along mentality. I've been asking the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation why they haven't been involved in the wolf issue for several years, and they are just now thinking it might be a problem. I don't buy their magazine, use their mailing labels, or stop at their headquarters when I pass through Missoula. I'd rather belong to an honest complete anti-hunting group. Stay angry folks and keep verbalizing it reason hasn't worked.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Hate to say it HARPERC, but I think your negative assessment of the overall situation is probably more accurate than we would like to hear! I also dropped my membershiip when Dart left the RMEF organization. There is just way too much political and court action going on and most don't trust the various states or federal bilogical data either, so it may never go away until it's too late. I hope I'm wrong!

 

[mustang58]

I quit the RMEF when they took the stand they did over the Grizzlies. They continued with the wolves. They are now beginning to see the light. They don't have any elk left. Let them suffer a little maybe they will be a little smarter next time. They will learn they can't be politically correct on these issues. The Idaho Fish and Game are in the same class as far as I am concerned. I don't know what they are thinking. Maybe a little less money to work with will change their mind a little. They have been trying to get into the state general fund for several years now and I have heard several legislators say not as long as they have a vote. Things look pretty grim as far as funds go. It is just a matter of a little time until they have to start cutting personal. It is a sad state of affairs. I heard with my own ears several Fish and Game personal make the remark that the wolves would be good for the states elk herds. Maybe I don't understasnd what good is. It is too bad we have to be punished too.

 

[sp6x6]

It has taken the last 3-5 yrs for wolfs to have a impact in my hunting area.I hunt NWMT AND spent 4-5 seasons in NID.I have seen the wolfs push the game into tougher country,and it is tougher to hunt. I already hunted the hard stuff,now it is harder.I ran into a warden, and I am not naming him, but he offered to help a rancher site in his rifle for wolf, this was 2-3 years ago. At the time it was legit for ID, THIS SUPRIZED ME, and I believe warden was on same page as me.He was also trying to bust career poachers w/rifle in bow season. Back to MT, I spent over 150 days in the field in the last 3 season,not counting spring bear. And when I had my wolf tag, I spent extra time in areas with sign, but I was not in cattle type country, mountains. I ran the high country, herd them howl, and howled back, ran roads with lots of sign, but NO LUCK. I have seen pretty much every critter in MT, including a wolverine at 30 yrs. 2 years ago, and could not seal the deal on a wolf.A friend missed a big black one I WAS HUNTING, and one was shot 5 minutes in front of me on a mountain range, it had just killed a deer, which they heard and walked up on it. So the moral of my story is they are hard to kill, I did glimpse one on what used to be a favorite elk ridge.I have heard them from AK, ID AND MT and have seen what they have done in tough steep country, and I do not know where they are OVER THE HUMP, but if they get in the Bear Paws, Highwood,Elkhorns, etc, the smaller type ecosystems, it will be terrible. Gotta go Im loading up some 85 gr. 257 WMAG...Hoooowl

 

[HARPERC]

Last November we elected folks to carry a message we weren't happy to Washington D.C. In February the House of Representatives passed legislation to delist the wolf, and cut funding from several agencies. The Senate rejected it, and now USFW is ready to renegotiate with WYOMING.
Great news! Now is the time to thank those legislators who applied this pressure and educate those that didn't. When I "googled" some of the news articles regarding the funding, not one led me to a site favorable to delisting wolves. The other side hasn't quit and neither should we. I think it was that great philosopher Louis L'amour that said " it's tough to stop a man that knows he's right and just keeps coming".
I'm like most the hunters and shooters I know-I'm independent, I don't belong to groups, and I hate politics. I'd rather be in the basement loading ammo, at the range testing it, out in the woods with my ATV putting it to use. I will be writing my representatives-as unpleasant as I find that activity.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

HARPERC---Got your email and I think we are pretty close on this and all the other political BS that's going on nowadays! We definitely all need to unite and realize that's the only way we will defeat these tree hugging, bunny/wolf loving, gun hating antis! If they gave their money to great causes like all the money that hunters and fishermen give every year through excise taxes, as well as charitable contributions, we could all breathe a little easier. Those factions are so nuts that it's not realistic to ever think that will happen though. I think I was born a couple hundred years too late and I especially loved the last paragraph in your last post because all I can say is "ditto that", LOL!!!

 

[Gone Ballistic]

As far as the states caving in that isn't the reality of the way things have gone. Idaho was essentially blackmailed by the Feds into the wolf reintroduction through a Federally mandated Wolf Recovery Act. The reality of where the monies for funding the reintroduction and monitoring of the wolves has finally been exposed. Even the monies the Anti's have used to fight the delisting has come from the same source. That source of money is the money each and every sportsman pays through an excise tax that was volunteered years ago called Pittman Robertson funds. That is the real travesty all of us that hunt and fish are enduring. The RMEF has taken a stand for the delisting of wolves. As I understand it, their bylaws limit them to using their funds for aquisition and improvement of elk habitat. Now I know that one would think that the best thing that could be done for improvement of elk habitat would be the elimination of wolves at this point but their funds can't be used to fight legal battles as such. I am going to make a call or two to get clarification on exactly how they have their hands tied up in this issue. I am somewhat amiss at exactly what you mean when you are inferring they're crooked or liars. Can you go into more depth as to why you are saying that? I am going to say "Bravo" to you for writing to your legislators. Far too many of us sit on our apathetical keesters and let someone else fight our battles. That's why we loose on so many issues. we don't band together in a solid force and show everyone just how many of us there are. The majority of us just sit back and gripe about the way things go. If we could ever unite into one solid front and not battle each other about our personal preferences, we would be a huge force to recon with. The Anti's have used horrible pictures and lies to stirr the public's sympathy for their cause in protecting wolves. We should be showing the real side of the carnage wolves are causing and get the majority on our side. It's tough to get people up and moving but what you are saying you're going to do is a huge start. Try to get your friends and family involved as well before we have lost all of our hunting, which is the real motivation for the Anti's cause.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I just copied/pasted the following below the *** off another website I'm a regular on. I wish they would just take donations and put it out on PBS across the country where it would be visible to those who need to know all the facts and probably won't buy it. I would bet that most sales will be to hunters who already know the screwing we're getting and what is really happening on this whole wolf debacle. I'm pretty sure that RMEF can't use money for other than what was stated, but I think they dropped the ball by at least not using their clout to get the message out. Instead, they just went with the flow until it was almost too late. I really wonder if Dart left because he was batting heads with the Board over the wolf issue or if it was for something else.

***
The video Yellowstone Is Dead was released yesterday. This is a documentary of wolf introduction from the beginning to present day including the USFWS cover ups, the DOW' hand in introduction, the impact of wolves on our ecosystem and everything in between. DVDs are $16 plus $4 shipping and handling for a total of $20. This is a must see video for sportsmen and outdoor enthusiasts.
With the pro wolf organizations wanting to place wolves in all of the lower 48 states this will be coming to a forest near you very soon.

Previews of Yellowstone Is Dead can be found at
http://savewesternwildlife.org/
To order the video use this link Yellowstone is Dead — Yellowstone is Dead
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