Moose Hunt

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

I would have

Gents,

I had a guided Moose hunt this year in Alaska which was unsuccessful... it happens. I felt the outfitter was solid but I had an incident with a guide and I would like a second opinion.

At first light I spotted a 65"+ moose about a mile away. At last light he fed out into a meadow and was 464 yards away. In short, the guide denied me on a clear shot. I spoke with the guide afterward and he said I did not understand how much respect he had for those animals and he did not want to see me wound it.

Yes, I kept my composure and this was my only opportunity at a moose during the trip. I had a 7mm rem mag with VLD 180s at 2910 FPS and carry 2000 ft pounds of energy at 500 yards.

I wish this opportunity had never presented itself as it tainted my experience. I did speak with the outfitter and he stands behind his guide and is not willing to work something out that would be a win win.

Adding; I practice out to 1000 yards and have taken several animals cross canyon. Prior to the hunt I established 500 yards as a max shooting range as I wanted plenty of energy to take the animal.

Thoughts?

taken the shot and that outfitter would not get my ok again many think a moose needs to be close to shot but if you had the skill you did have enough gun and round fot a clean kill with a well placed shot. but the outfitter and guide did not know you or your shooting skill. next time make it known you can and will take longer shots then most hunters are able to.464 yards are not a long range shot at least to me. but if you do not have all the gear wind metter good gun and round best to not take the shot

 

[trhall]

I personally have never had a guided hunt, I am a Wyoming resident and all my hunts are on me. 464 yards......I can hit the bottom of a pop can cold bore every time at that distance unless the wind is really, really whipping. And even then, I keep it inside a 10x10 plate at ranges like that.

If a guide told me not to take a 464 yard shot when I had a solid rest simply because of the distance alone and no other adverse conditions affecting the shot.....I would probably laugh at him and then dump the animal. It is not their job to decide my capabilities, it is their job to try to get me an opportunity at an animal, and likely help me pack it out, and that is it.

Then again, I don't know how that whole game works, I have never been on a guided hunt. I think previous talk about your capabilities and experience may have helped/prevented the situation, but if you did talk to the guide about it, and you still got denied on a clear 464 yard shot with plenty of time to take the shot....I would not be happy about it. Like I said, I very likely would have taken the shot anyway, knowing that I was going to make a solid hit on it, and the guide can go right ahead and get over it. That is just me though, I don't do well with people telling me I can't do something I have done literally thousands of times before.

Sorry you had a bad experience. I went on my one and only guided hunt with Non-Typical Outfitters in Wyoming last year for bull elk. Something I was really impressed with was that they scheduled everyone to arrive in camp by early afternoon for "rifle zero" . What this ended up really being was to verify each hunter's capabilities. The had a single very rickety "bench" with steel gongs scattered up a very steep hillside to 800 yards. The outfitter and all of the guides were present, all observing each hunter shoot. As a hunter's turn came up they were asked about their equipment and ammo when they stepped up to the bench. Then they were asked what they were comfortable shooting. They were allowed to shoot as much as they wanted and coached a bit based on results to confirm their max effective range.
I was lucky in that I arrived a bit late and was the very last one to shoot. I had practiced alot before the trip. I sat down and cold bore'd the 500 and then moved to the 700. The outfitter asked me if I practiced alot and I said I did out to 1200. He asked if I wanted to shoot anymore and I said if he wanted me to I would but for me I was good. He stated he felt I didn't need to either.
Early the next morning the outfitter came to me and told me they had been seeing a big, very old lone bull living in a big dark timber canyon. He said he really wanted to kill this bull but it was going to be a 600 - 700 yard shot across the canyon with wind and may take days to get the opportunity. Based on my shooting he said I was the only hunter in camp he felt confident could make the shot. I said I was honored and felt confident I could execute. That evening just before dark I killed the bull in my avatar at 639 yard with a 20 mph wind.
There was another hunter paired with me and the guide and he whined alot before the bull showed up about wanting to be the one to shoot. He had proven at the range that he wasn't capable beyond 300 yards and the guides reminded him of that and that the outfitter had selected me for this shot based on that. They held firm and I was really impressed.

 

[BigJam]

Rang the grizzly bear dinner bell and took a 64" bull moose in British Columbia a few weeks ago 7mm LRM, 180gr Berger 425yds and dropped it. Had a shot at 1000yds but wasn't comfortable that bullet energy would suffice so stalked in. This is a little bit off the topic but I have great luck with Bergers at 200+ yds but closer I find we are doing a lot of tracking and not always successfu. Took a 300" 6x6 elk a couple days after the moose at 50 yards in heavy bush. Double lung shot and we found him just as his legs wobbled and went down and put another in just to be safe as it was the last minutes of the last night of our hunt. Have lost a few deer at close ranges there is blood but very little, we found one 3 days later by seeing the crows circling. Although I've had on rare occasions the opposite where the exit would was pretty well the entire front quarter of the hide, messy! So thinking about going back to Barnes when hunting closer ranges anyone else have similar experience with Bergers at closer ranges?

 

[Backcountry sports]

Gents,

I had a guided Moose hunt this year in Alaska which was unsuccessful... it happens. I felt the outfitter was solid but I had an incident with a guide and I would like a second opinion.

At first light I spotted a 65"+ moose about a mile away. At last light he fed out into a meadow and was 464 yards away. In short, the guide denied me on a clear shot. I spoke with the guide afterward and he said I did not understand how much respect he had for those animals and he did not want to see me wound it.

Yes, I kept my composure and this was my only opportunity at a moose during the trip. I had a 7mm rem mag with VLD 180s at 2910 FPS and carry 2000 ft pounds of energy at 500 yards.

I wish this opportunity had never presented itself as it tainted my experience. I did speak with the outfitter and he stands behind his guide and is not willing to work something out that would be a win win.

Adding; I practice out to 1000 yards and have taken several animals cross canyon. Prior to the hunt I established 500 yards as a max shooting range as I wanted plenty of energy to take the animal.

Thoughts?

 

[Backcountry sports]

Great combo on gun it would do the trick guide should have let you do that maybe guide needs trained to us long range hunters

 

[ShtrRdy]

It sounds like your self imposed limit is much like I arrived at for myself for an elk hunt. I like to think it's up to the hunter to make the final decision since they know their ability the best. Maybe the guide has had to work with too many clients who didn't know their capabilities. Or maybe the guide didn't want to locate the Moose through the night. There may have been other concerns the guide had like competing with bears.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

I'm sorry that your moose hunt worked out the way it did. However, maybe the rest of us can use this as a "learning opportunity". Prior to hiring the outfitter, we need to determine how he feels about "longish" shots on game. Not everyone approves of long range shooting of game! memtb

Further, if the outfitter was reluctant to approve a 400 or 500 yd shot, prior to the hunt, I would have asked to prove my skill with some demo shots at a target.
I think outfitters and guides have heard a lot bragging about long distance skills that couldn't be proven in the field, on actual game.
At this same time, there aren't any bigger game animals in North America than a bull moose.

 

[Coastalmatt]

I would have

taken the shot and that outfitter would not get my ok again many think a moose needs to be close to shot but if you had the skill you did have enough gun and round fot a clean kill with a well placed shot. but the outfitter and guide did not know you or your shooting skill. next time make it known you can and will take longer shots then most hunters are able to.464 yards are not a long range shot at least to me. but if you do not have all the gear wind metter good gun and round best to not take the shot

If you indicated that you practice 1000 yds plus and felt comfortable with the shot, the guide should of allowed you the shot, and with the understanding that if you loose the Moose due to bad shot its over. With a 7mm rem mag it is definite a moose caliber. I took a cow elk at 480 yds with the same and it did the job.

 

[sea2summit]

Sorry for you but this sounds like something that should have been ironed out before you even took your first step. Were your skills questioned before the hunt? Did they know your capabilities? Did you offer your shooting capabilities? Surely you checked your zero but that would have been at closer yardage. Did he approve of your 7mm?

All this^

I'm sure they have an established acceptable range they try to get clients to, ask them what it is.

 

[stever88]

20/20 Hindsight is nice to have, but, why don't the professional guides publish a performance criterion that they expect of their Clients before they even book the hunt and then verify it like trall (good story) experienced?

 

[azsugarbear]

Some guides (and some famous hunting personalities with their own TV shows) still refuse to accept that times and abilities can now afford the practiced shooter to take game at longer distances. They often recite "respect for the animal". I think this came about when B & C board or committee began to discuss the LRH phenomena. Nothing can change their mind. It always best practice to check with a guide on such issues prior to booking.

 

[Alibiiv]

Gents,

I had a guided Moose hunt this year in Alaska which was unsuccessful... it happens. I felt the outfitter was solid but I had an incident with a guide and I would like a second opinion.

At first light I spotted a 65"+ moose about a mile away. At last light he fed out into a meadow and was 464 yards away. In short, the guide denied me on a clear shot. I spoke with the guide afterward and he said I did not understand how much respect he had for those animals and he did not want to see me wound it.

Yes, I kept my composure and this was my only opportunity at a moose during the trip. I had a 7mm rem mag with VLD 180s at 2910 FPS and carry 2000 ft pounds of energy at 500 yards.

I wish this opportunity had never presented itself as it tainted my experience. I did speak with the outfitter and he stands behind his guide and is not willing to work something out that would be a win win.

Adding; I practice out to 1000 yards and have taken several animals cross canyon. Prior to the hunt I established 500 yards as a max shooting range as I wanted plenty of energy to take the animal.

Thoughts?

I'd like to discuss as many details about a hunt with the outfitter that I can think of "before" I will book a hunt. Sometimes there are things that we don't think of or know about before we go. That is where this forum can come in, especially in the numerous hunting forums on this site. Recently I posted a thread about what to look for before booking a black bear hunt; stuff like the hunter/guide ratio, when they outfitter starts baiting, number of baits sites per hunter. I went on a black bear hunt one year where the outfitter ran out of bait by Wednesday, fortunately that year I ran into a suicidal, hungry bear. Not blaming by any means as I agree with your thoughts, it would be a question that I'd definitely ask before I would book a moose trip. Thank you for this posting, experiences like yours help out others who are booking a trip. For some of us it's a trip of a lifetime that we'll never afford to do again.

 

[CVCOBRA1]

Some guides (and some famous hunting personalities with their own TV shows) still refuse to accept that times and abilities can now afford the practiced shooter to take game at longer distances. They often recite "respect for the animal". I think this came about when B & C board or committee began to discuss the LRH phenomena. Nothing can change their mind. It always best practice to check with a guide on such issues prior to booking.

I think you might be more on the point here than you know. There might be more outfitters and guides out there that have the mindset that over 300 yards is too far and not ethical fair chase for the game. I would like to know what the outfitters have to say about this. I must admit just a few years ago I thought the same thing when I started seeing game taken at 1000 and plus yards. Not fair to the game. In a way I still question that. This being stated on a "long range hunting" forum. What is long range and what is hunting and what is shooting?

 

[CVCOBRA1]

The word "actual" is a rule #1 violation?