Montana Nonres elk/deer $$$912.00

[RMulhern]

Maybe you guys from Montana can answer this:

Does Montana Fish & Game get revenue allotted to it from the general fund by law or....are the funds it has to operate with just generated from sales of tags, fishing or hunting, license for boats, 4 wheelers, etc.??? This is how the Louisiana Wildlife & Fisheries Department operates....no funds come by law directly from taxes!

As for out of state hunters being so-called 'land locked' out....it doesn't make good commonsense to not give access aka ingress/egress to public owned property such as NF or BLM land! Residents of Montana and other western states may not want non residents coming in but I can guarantee you one thing which is your business people aka owners of restaurants, hotels/motels, sporting goods store owners, petro folks, supermarkets, and all others probably appreciate non residents to a high degree!!

Oh...if I could have moved to Montana 50 years ago....I would have; was just one main/big problem! My business is aviation and there just wasn't any cotton, rice, or soybeans to spray in Montana so I had to stay down here in the South to make my living! Montana is one more FANTASTIC & BEAUTIFUL state and I envy you guys that have made it your homeland! Shiloh Rifles is in Big Timber, Montana and run by Kirk Bryan and family and IMO....they make the worlds best M1874 Sharps rifles! Absolutely fantastic work they do!

http://www.shilohrifle.com/contact.html

Take care!

 

[bigngreen]

Here's how it breaks down;

2011 DEPARTMENT REVENUE
is is an illustration of FWP's funding. Actual annual revenues
from these sources may fall above or below the figures used here.
Statutory ...................................................2.2%............$1,953,732
Other State Revenue..............................12%..........$10,511,513
Federal Funds ...........................................20%..........$17,437,281
Hunting and Fishing Licenses.........65.8%..........$57,561,539
(33 percent derived from resident licenses and 67 percent from nonresident licenses)
DEPARTMENT TOTAL:.............................100%...........$87,464,065
2011 FISH AND WILDLIFE DIVISION REVENUE
e Fish and Wildlife Division includes five programs:
Wildlife, Communication and Education,
Fisheries, Law Enforcement, and Strategic Planning
and Data Services. e programs are funded by
statutory revenue, hunting and fishing license revenue,
other state revenue and federal funds.
Statutory Revenue
Statutory revenue is revenue appropriated specifically
by Montana law—for example, to support operations,
maintenance and forest management on
the state's wildlife management areas.
Hunting And Fishing License Revenue
is license revenue source includes all license sales,
interest earnings and miscellaneous revenues. About
two-thirds of FWP's license revenue comes from
nonresident license sales.
Other State Revenue
e Fish and Wildlife Division receives revenue
from other state sources. For example, the nongame
income tax check-off contributions made by taxpayers
supports nongame species management and improved
wildlife viewing opportunities.
Federal Funds
More than $12.8 million comes from an excise tax on
sporting arms and ammunition, handguns and certain
archery equipment (Pittman-Robertson). About
$9.26 million in federal funding comes from an excise
tax on fishing equipment and electric trolling
motors, a federal fuel tax and import duties on fishing
tackle and pleasure boats (Dingell-Johnson).
Montana received $1.3 million in 2010 from the
State Wildlife Grant Program to help fund research
and management programs for species that have
special conservation needs.
2011 PARKS DIVISION REVENUE

The public ground being land locked it cuts all ways, resident and non resident. These land owners don't give a second though to our local economy they own the land for their amusement only and the only thing they contribute to the local economy is taxes.
One key thing one has to understand is NF,BLM and FWP have almost zero cooperation! FWP has been frustrated by all the road closures because guys just can't get into the elk and then they do not make their harvest goals. NF and BLM are on an anti hunting bend and do nothing to help us at all, they don't care if ground is land locked, in fact it is part of the plan I would say.

In my area of MT hunting is NOT what supports the community it is cattle!!! Take one ranch here, employing 6-8 families, vets and local businesses and you sell that ranch to one of the individuals we are talking that buys it to own a piece of MT for a hunting preserve. Cows are gone, you have one family employed to care take the building and run people of, several of these guys fly in with staff and all the goods they need, they kill our economy!!! Prime example, Ted Turner!!! Most of these places the only guys that hunt it will be guys like Premos or Realtree or high dollar business clients.

I hit Shiloh every time I go through Big Twig!! My father in-law won a rifle in a silhouette match at Missoula a couple years ago, very nice rifle!! I get to feed it every once in a while

 

[CogburnR]

One of my buddies built an airplane especially outfitted for flying in and hunting the landlocked areas.

He died of cancer while he was getting his rating to fly it. It still sits here south of town in a hanger never flown.

 

[Nomosendero]

One of my buddies built an airplane especially outfitted for flying in and hunting the landlocked areas.

He died of cancer while he was getting his rating to fly it. It still sits here south of town in a hanger never flown.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'll repeat what bigngreen said. The public lands that are land locked by private lands that will not allow people to travel the roads through them to get to the public lands affect everyone no matter where they are from. So between people that buy 'their little piece of Montana' and the forest service gating the roads on public lands we are getting less and less hunt able lands. So if the Fish and Game can generate more funds for the block management in order to open up more opportunities for all hunters then great.

Steve

 

[RMulhern]

No offense....but it sounds/reads like you guys in Montana should entertain the idea of 'kicking your legislators' in the ***! They're the ones that have allowed the type of stuff you've written about here and if the truth be known....there's got to be TONS OF CORRUPTION taking place regarding this issue!!

 

[ATH]

ATH, what areas are you applying for? Three years and no elk, you should have better luck than that! Hopefully MT will not turn into a rich only hunting state, this bill was to fight that though on the face of it, it may not appear that way. The majority of outfitter licenses in my area are held or under control of uber rich owners that are changing it into exactly what it is back east.

I hunt the Bob Marshall (if I want a bull) or the front range (if I want a cow) west of Dupuyer. The first year I did get a respectable bull back in the Bob, which I am told is very rare. The second year we hunted hard and covered dozens of miles on foot (backpack hunting) and did not see a single elk; the locals reported very few around. This past year we only saw 2 cows covering over 100 miles and they were the night before season opened; we only saw one drainage with any fresh sign. They had been there in decent numbers during bow season, we were told, but come gun season the only person we met who saw an elk that week had covered unbelievable amounts of ground on horse for a week and a half before finally finding a medium bull way back in the Bob -- that bull and its 2 cows were the only elk he saw, and he started the season on the far side of the Divide where it opened earlier.

I am a big fan of Block Management, we enjoyed utilizing it and the owners we met were extremely friendly and helpful. But at least in the area I hunt it is great for antelope and birds, OK for deer, but next to useless for elk. If we draw this year we plan on putting some more time into researching if there is any that may really hold elk in our area.

Fortunately, where I hunt access is not that big of an issue. Finding ground that holds elk during rifle season (even opening day) is, which is why we are going bowhunting this year.

 

[Troutslayer2]

I'm glad our license fees are now consistent with neighboring states. And as far as outfitters, they shot themselves in the foot with their rampant commodification of animals. The outfitter sponsored tags were being abused by wealthy absentee landowners who wanted to bypass the drawing and get a tag every year. It was an incentive to buy up MT, contribute nothing, and shoot our animals on their property.

The drawing is fair, outfitters who are good at what they do will have no problem filling their calendar. It's comical, the outfitters who are raising the biggest stink are the ones who have nothing to offer- except the outfitter sponsored tag! If that is your only selling point for your entire business, you probably deserve to go under.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'm glad our license fees are now consistent with neighboring states. And as far as outfitters, they shot themselves in the foot with their rampant commodification of animals. The outfitter sponsored tags were being abused by wealthy absentee landowners who wanted to bypass the drawing and get a tag every year. It was an incentive to buy up MT, contribute nothing, and shoot our animals on their property.

The drawing is fair, outfitters who are good at what they do will have no problem filling their calendar. It's comical, the outfitters who are raising the biggest stink are the ones who have nothing to offer- except the outfitter sponsored tag! If that is your only selling point for your entire business, you probably deserve to go under.

This in my opinion is right on. If this is wrong, I need someone that can tell my why. I am willing to have my mind changed, but as of yet have not had someone that can give me a good reason.

On another note. Why is there a limit on the number of outfitters? It does not seem right to me for the government to control how many people are allowed to this work. Can you imagine wanting to be a gun smith and being told that we already have enough, you'll have to wait for one to retire or die before you can be one. Or find something else. This would apply to any career. Sounds like Government intrusion to me. Let the free market work.

Steve

 

[pitbull320]

ath I don,t know what part of the bob marshall your hunting but were I hunt it is not uncommon to shoot a 350+ bull and see 100 to 200 elk a day same goes for the area on the front that we hunt witch is very hunter friendly and easy to hunt on foot if you need some info shoot me a pm

 

[bigngreen]

No offense....but it sounds/reads like you guys in Montana should entertain the idea of 'kicking your legislators' in the ***! They're the ones that have allowed the type of stuff you've written about here and if the truth be known....there's got to be TONS OF CORRUPTION taking place regarding this issue!!

For me it will always be a balancing act, I want to have good access to good hunting but at the same time I also value strong property rights. Working to strengthen both hunting access and quality while also standing firm on private property rights can at time be at conflict but if people don't start hanging the guys on the other side of this issue there will be a mutually beneficial solution.

I like bolstering Block land management, it is a win for both side in my area. Land owner makes a buck and I get access. This is local solutions to local problems. What we can not fight very well against is the Federal take over of our land and shutting out access, this is killing our economies at every level except government jobs. Cattle grazing is getting cut, logging is dead, mining is hard at best, accessing for tourism dollars is hard, MT is an economy based on natural resources and without access, well you do the math!

Politics is a horrible thing that is evil on most levels but left unchecked and ignored it feeds it's self, as much as I hate it I try to get involved in at least the hunting and FWP issues. Get involved with the FWP, I've found they listen and if given a chance they will explain the ins and outs of decisions made, if you show up and make and @ss of yourself though it make a bad showing for all of us!!

 

[bigngreen]

I hunt the Bob Marshall (if I want a bull) or the front range (if I want a cow) west of Dupuyer. The first year I did get a respectable bull back in the Bob, which I am told is very rare. The second year we hunted hard and covered dozens of miles on foot (backpack hunting) and did not see a single elk; the locals reported very few around. This past year we only saw 2 cows covering over 100 miles and they were the night before season opened; we only saw one drainage with any fresh sign. They had been there in decent numbers during bow season, we were told, but come gun season the only person we met who saw an elk that week had covered unbelievable amounts of ground on horse for a week and a half before finally finding a medium bull way back in the Bob -- that bull and its 2 cows were the only elk he saw, and he started the season on the far side of the Divide where it opened earlier.

I am a big fan of Block Management, we enjoyed utilizing it and the owners we met were extremely friendly and helpful. But at least in the area I hunt it is great for antelope and birds, OK for deer, but next to useless for elk. If we draw this year we plan on putting some more time into researching if there is any that may really hold elk in our area.

Fortunately, where I hunt access is not that big of an issue. Finding ground that holds elk during rifle season (even opening day) is, which is why we are going bowhunting this year.

Some parts of the Bob are just mind boggling work, especially without horses!! I used to go in near Augusta and pack in with a friend up onto the divide and hunt lions and trap in the back country till we couldn't get up the trails with snow shoes, now we have families and jobs . Amazing country the Bob. I have a friend that goes in on horses that took some nice elk last year up near where you were but man it was in!! There are some very good opportunities in SW MT, especially during bow season, rifle is GTG also but you have to fight the masses. Bulls aren't that great, 300 class is a solid bull with 340's top end. It's more about body count down here Pitbull320 sounds like he has a great lead but if you want any details on SW MT PM me!

 

[cowboy]

Politics is a horrible thing that is evil on most levels but left unchecked and ignored it feeds it's self, as much as I hate it I try to get involved in at least the hunting and FWP issues. Get involved with the FWP, I've found they listen and if given a chance they will explain the ins and outs of decisions made, if you show up and make and @ss of yourself though it make a bad showing for all of us!!

Couldn't agree with you more - especially about the politics. If our current legislature passes some of the garbage that has been proposed in the current legislation we're really going to see some big changes, IE: A spear hunting season, ATV retrieval on public ground, 2 different bills on the buffalo, etc, etc.

In the State of Montana the legislature meets every other year - At times I think it would be good if they met every 3rd or 4th year - that way they could only mess up stuff a third or fourth as much.

 

[WnMag]

I will Just stay a Montana'n average Joe and buy my tag's over the counter and keep applying for the special permitts. You have any Idea how many elk end up on those ranches, the greedy as$ owners want 5,000 and up for a elk???? ***, Then they bitch about the range grass and other crops destroyed by the elk, expecting the state to pay them for the dammage...Well the elk belong to the people and if they wont let anybody hunt them on their ranches with out$$$$ then the ignorant F***'S deserve to lose more.gun)That is my thought and many others.