Montana corner crossing law hb235

[300stw]

my take on the whole deal is legally accesible public land cornered up to public land,

i never ever thought about allowing people to cross private to get to the public,
it wouldnt make ever piece accesible but would make a lot accesible,

know that the trespassing law is getting pushed and wanting a minimum 500.00 fine, there is info quoted that every sportsmen has a gps there is no need for trespassing so up the fine on us,,,

i have been involved in many landowner survey issues,, there is always a finite point at the crossing and common since would say you could step from place to place,,
we need some way to make it fair to the common people for acces to public lands that are accesible from a public point and utilize the corner crossing ,that we are paying money to use but cant,,

any one want to share north dakotas public access law,
why should so few benefit so greatly from public land,

 

[MachV]

Historicly Montana and Wyoming have been governed by ranchers.....The landlocking was done on perpose in most cases! With the land prices the way they have been a 10 acer parcel can be worth quite a chunk of change if it shuts down a 2 track.
Just like many other states all land should have been required to have an easment......Not very important back when most of the land was aquired but it sure made for a mess these days.
I'm not saying a guy should be able to drive a truck anywhere he wants or cross anywhere he wants BUT if the backtrack on a GPS showes you corner jumped @ the corner on foot how much did you invade on privet property?

 

[cowboy]

I did not read every post on this - so forgive me if I repeat something and I intend this for clarification purposes only.

HB235 really (had) nothing to ever do with stepping on privately held property or getting access to public from private property - that is why it was referred to as "The corner jumping" referendom. By this I mean where there are 2 parcels public and 2 parcels that are private at 180 degrees. Just for visual purposes: If there was a corner post at the corner of 4 parcels - this bill would have made it legal to jump the corner post (Never stepping on private) from public land to public land (which is now illegal by law in Montana and Wyoming)

Ellie Hill (D) sponsored this bill and it was co-sponsored by Krayton Kearns (R)

When it went to vote today in judiciary committee it was voted to not get out of committee by 12-8. Twelve republicans voted against (Including co-sponsor Kearns) and 8 democrats voted in favor.

Welcome to working together and bi-partisan politics. Vote against your own bill or face the rath of your party.

Kearns (used to be) my vet out of Laurel. I have no time for holding the party line in politics - if it's good vote for it, if it's bad vote against it, but be man/woman enough to stand on what you feel is right/ethical.

 

[bigngreen]

That would be a hard one, I fully understand not wanting a herd of goobers trailing through the corners of your place, which would happen but the way access has gotten down here the last year something has to give!!
One ranch I grew up on and have hunted most of my life did not go with block land management and locked everything down, and I would have been OK with that as it's their right but then they sold access to the public ground behind their place to out of state outfitters, that chaps my buns!!!
I really hate this as I've been on both sides but the old rancher and way are gone, dollar and control are king! I'm at the point where I think ranchers should access public ground the same way everyone else does, if they need to put salt out or fix fence one the ground beyond their own locked gate then they better strap on the shoe leather or load up a horse. I'm getting really tire of hiking my butt way back in only to have a 70,000 dollar pickup roll up and drive past me loaded with dudes!! Somethings gotta give!!!

 

[cowboy]

Somethings gotta give!!!

Bigngreen you are right - somethings gotta give. Problem is the fruitcakes we got up in Helena right now gotta be smoking something other than normal cigs. to come up with some of the bat crazy ideas that are being proposed.

For entertainment: Go to the Montana FWP website and look at the proposed legislation that is currently being proposed. Get a big bowl of popcorn - it'll take a while to review 130 plus bills that relate to FWP.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

The solution to this is not corner jumping. I don't really want to hop from one section to another and as was mentioned earlier, a lot of corners are not passable by foot. The real solution is rearrangement of land.

And yeah, I'm gettin real tired of out of staters getting better access by far than residents. I don't mind out of state hunters but things have to be put in ballance and any preference should fall to the residents.

Another thing that chaps me is that game animals are a state resource, meaning they belong to all the people of the state. Ranchers close down their land to residents and sell the hunting rights to out of staters and profit from a state resource while the residents get nothing. If ranchers lease out their land, there should be a reciprocity condition requiring them to open a percentage of their land to public hunting via block management and it should be a larger percentage than the leased portion. I feel like handicapped in my own state.

 

[Broz]

Ranchers close down their land to residents and sell the hunting rights to out of staters and profit from a state resource while the residents get nothing. If ranchers lease out their land, there should be a reciprocity condition requiring them to open a percentage of their land to public hunting via block management and it should be a larger percentage than the leased portion. I feel like handicapped in my own state.

I see your point. But we shouldn't forget who feeds those animals year round. The reason the game is there is because there is feed.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I see your point. But we shouldn't forget who feeds those animals year round. The reason the game is there is because there is feed.

Yup, I agree and don't mind that they make some profit from the resource but I think they should share some of the resource with the residents.

On you're earlier question, I'll send an email to BLM, USFS and my local reps and share the response.

 

[Broz]

On you're earlier question, I'll send an email to BLM, USFS and my local reps and share the response.

Thanks.

I realize this is not the end to all problems. But it seems to me that a fix to some of it is to sell the "land locked" areas and buy some of the land out there for sale that has access. Or trade for land with access. This may not be possible, I don't know. A lot of this ground was obtained by it being handed down or left to them. There could be a clause that it can never be sold??

Jeff

 

[bigngreen]

I see your point. But we shouldn't forget who feeds those animals year round. The reason the game is there is because there is feed.

I know guys who loose 60 thousand dollars worth of hay a year to elk and deer not to mention the lose of grazing on fields!!

I think it all boils down to equal access to public ground for every user, whether it be the hunter or rancher running cattle. Most of the places I've hunted the bottom private ground has always been locked, no big deal because there has always been roads or ways to access the public ground that were used by everyone.

I know one ranch that FWP has begged to land trade or some other solution but there is no way they will because it allows the public to access what has become their personal play ground.

I do think that the average hunter has degraded in their respect for private ground, I've fixed the fences and filled in the wheel ruts, sprayed the weeds and picked up the beer cans from some of the idiots that we see. I wouldn't want any of them near my ground, make for a hard deal for everyone, especially those of use who believe in strong property rights yet like to have access to public lands!

 

[MR.SWIFT]

if i understand correctly blm land is public land. most if not all states require a min. of a walking path access when bordered by private land. same as a stream cannot be fenced if it crosses your property. a fisherman cannot wonder at will on your land but is able or allowed to get on the bank.

 

[Daveinjax]

The solution is to offer decent land trades for easements and back the offers up with eminent domain seizure for guys who don't play ball. The public should never be locked out of public land.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Mixed feelings here.

On the one hand, I pay for a State Lands recreational use permit, so it would seem appropriate that I should be able to access said lands for recreational use.

On the other hand, I understand landowner concerns and interests. I live on a small tract of property, and have a 60-foot wide easement on my along the edge of it. It's a private access easement, for local homeowners, not a county owned/maintained road. All grading, gravel, snow plowing, etc, is paid for by the homeowners. However, the public has legal access to use the road. And they use it a lot with no regard for speeding, littering, wear and tear, etc. It can get annoying.

 

[bigngreen]

if i understand correctly blm land is public land. most if not all states require a min. of a walking path access when bordered by private land. same as a stream cannot be fenced if it crosses your property. a fisherman cannot wonder at will on your land but is able or allowed to get on the bank.

There is some access requirements but you may be walking a long freaking ways to get to anything, horses are the ticket for sure but they take so much time to get back in with that it's really does not work for the guy working six days a week who need to run up to the mountains and get an elk and get home with the meat. The area I hunt I used to access with a 20-30 mile drive and now it's 180 miles, I could corner hop with a mile hike and be into the same area I hunted before. My buddy and I actually stood at a corner and went over things with a county prosecutor this year and we came up with no legal way to access this area other than the 180 mile one road drive, which has just concentrated everyone making the road terrible!

The land swap isn't very attractive to most of these guys because they don't care about the land they just want to have the public ground as a personal play ground, these guys will roll up here and drop 20-30 million dollars just to close the bottom of to access the opportunities behind the private ground for them selves. I would fight any land deal done through eminent domain, it's government orchestrated theft of personal property, kinda like the President taking your AR 15 by executive order!!!