Mitigating Barrel Whip and Harmonics

[Rich Coyle]

At my education level all I can think of is....
WOW!

 

[25WSM]

The mention of dangerous answers and statements do not come from this particular thread in any way sorry if I made it sound that way. When I first started posting on here that's all I did was read from the shadows and one day I was reading some stuff and I said people are going to die. I've got to say something. And I did and then a bunch of guys jumped in and backed me up on it and that started me on my way out of the shadow. And I'm glad I did.
I want to thank every one who has wished me well. I broke my back 32 yrs ago in the military and am a 100% disabled vet. Yes I would do it all again no questions asked. Long line of military on both sides of the family here. None of my 3 kids joined because they got to see how I get taken care by our VA health care system. Enough it that now.
But I've had so many health problems with my back I've retired 3 times only to have my customers make me have to open back up. Last night was a night of hell and I for some reason just dumped on here. I was actually nervous to see what I would find when I opened this thread up this morning. I just had a sense in overwhelming joy when I started typing on here as so I kept on typing through the pain and tears. This got me through last night's every waking minute. And like I said I thank you all for helping. I will go for now because I have family sitting here right now but I will visit back soon and finish what I'm trying to say. I can't type well through the tears and my family is asking me what's so sad I'm responding to here. I said its just part of my second family caring too.
Shep

 

[Bro Dave]

Thanks guys
I truly love helping to share the passion of our sport with others and really helping with tech help from what I've learned in the military and from Pittsburgh Gunsmith School and from all the fellows who kicked my but at matches over the yrs. Those guys always turn out to be your best friend. There are times on this site when I have to speak up because something is dangerous wrong. I will always say something in this case and not back down. But lots of stuff is very debatable. Debatable is a very healthy way of getting info from people that are passionate about their views also. There's normally no right or wrong way just different ways to skin the cat. I have learned much more from you guys on this sight than I have given. Was just on a thread about a fellow who didn't have a good result on game with a hornady 143eldx. He shot like 4 animals and lost one and the others ran farther than he liked. His in body damage assessment showed pretty good bullet performance but not DRT. But then everybody started telling of documented kills they and friends have had. I personally have killed 65 deer in my hunting efforts over 45 yrs. I got that much info pretty much from one thread in a few days. Seems almost everybody had excellent results. And people told of super man deer that don't know when to fall down. Vast info and quality info. Since I'm a gunsmith by trade I love seeing how others do things. The new top trends and everything about building rifles and reloading of precise ammo. I'm a mix of old school and new school and am a results driven learner. I can think of a new way to try something but until I prove it or disprove it it's just a thought. I'm very much a deciple of the Tannel method and Jim Bordin. Two of the most knowledgeable rifleman I know. So you can be old school and new school combined. Like me I learned old school from Dick Thacker in Pittsburgh and have combined countless new ways to do the same thing either better or faster or with more precision. Always learning. Sorry for the long post but it's late I'm in pain and can't sleep and just feel the passion here from everybody else. Besides there is no rest for the sick in the hospital.
I'll get to my point now. This sight is awesome and combines precision shooting and hunting and reloading and smithing and troubleshooting and so much more. If your new on here get engaged get your feet wet ask for help and give help. I'm sure everyone give the best answers they can from what I see. If something seems off ask up about it. Mistakes are made here too. You have to pick up on that too. And never feel bad if you try to clarify that yes they really meant 100% what they meant. It's easy to get a decimal point in wrong place or get dyslexia on the numbers for powder weights or have chrono that read a bit to high or low. I have been on threads that get heated up and threads that are like talking to mister Roger's. A Pittsburgh hero. So just stay connected to keeping this the best sight out there. And yes I'm on the other sites some but this is my favorite for sure. And for good reasons that I already said before. And keep putting those post up about your kids first buck or their first rifle. How many people forget the first gun you are given or first hunt and then first kill. Not me that's for sure. How many of you can open a jar of Hoppes and bring back 500 memories in one second. Yeah now I just rambling. But I'm allowed to do that here too. So buy a kid a bottle of Hoppes for Christmas and explain to him it's a memory jar and that no it won't get you rifle barrel clean.
Night folks. Shep

Funny you should mention Hoppes. I haven't had a bottle since 1966. It was my first solvent and lasted forever. Saw it on the shelf and got all nostalgic so I bought it. Got to my gun room and opened it up anticipating that pungent bouquet of aromas that are known to cause cancer in the state of California and what did my dainty olifactories sense? BANANAS!

 

[25WSM]

Good to know. Don't give what's in my bottle to a kid or it'll be gone forever. Or is it only ca smell that's different.
Shep

 

[leo williams]

I agree that if it takes more than 2 shots, except in competition, something is wrong. But repeatability is based on four major things IMO. The shooter, the quality of the build, the loading and the stress, or lack of stress, in the barreled action. I have a Harmonic Stress Reliever that has never failed to improve the accuracy of any rifle I have used it on. From hunting rifles to 1,000 yd match rifles, they all shot better afterwards. No heat or cold is employed that may affect the quality of the components steel.

 

[Bro Dave]

The mention of dangerous answers and statements do not come from this particular thread in any way sorry if I made it sound that way. When I first started posting on here that's all I did was read from the shadows and one day I was reading some stuff and I said people are going to die. I've got to say something. And I did and then a bunch of guys jumped in and backed me up on it and that started me on my way out of the shadow. And I'm glad I did.
I want to thank every one who has wished me well. I broke my back 32 yrs ago in the military and am a 100% disabled vet. Yes I would do it all again no questions asked. Long line of military on both sides of the family here. None of my 3 kids joined because they got to see how I get taken care by our VA health care system. Enough it that now.
But I've had so many health problems with my back I've retired 3 times only to have my customers make me have to open back up. Last night was a night of hell and I for some reason just dumped on here. I was actually nervous to see what I would find when I opened this thread up this morning. I just had a sense in overwhelming joy when I started typing on here as so I kept on typing through the pain and tears. This got me through last night's every waking minute. And like I said I thank you all for helping. I will go for now because I have family sitting here right now but I will visit back soon and finish what I'm trying to say. I can't type well through the tears and my family is asking me what's so sad I'm responding to here. I said its just part of my second family caring too.
Shep

Feel free to "dump". You earned it.

 

[25WSM]

Your right Leo shooter first. And not shooter ability. But shooter honestly knowing his ability and staying in that limit till he has improved to a new limit with data. And as we are long range hunters it really does come down to one cold bore shot being perfect. I can personally shoot 3 inch groups at 1000 yards from a bench. I personally would not shoot a deer past 6-700 yards and I haven't. Field position is not as good. Field position doesn't give me home field advantage with tall wind flags to watch wind. My 1000 yard target doesn't walk in and out of bushes or trees. My 1000 yard target is at 1000 yards no matter how long it takes to break a shot. But this is me. I've seen your guys 1750 kills and it is absolutely mind blowing to me you have the skill to do it. Makes me feel like I'm on my millionth redryder BB. So yes everything does really have to be perfect down to the most important nut. You know the one steering. I don't know of any hobby that has so wide a berth as the shooting industry. So what's your secret piece Leo? I want to know.
Maybe it's my missing link.
Shep

 

[Rich Coyle]

I have a Harmonic Stress Reliever that has never failed to improve the accuracy of any rifle I have used it on. From hunting rifles to 1,000 yd match rifles, they all shot better afterwards. No heat or cold is employed that may affect the quality of the components steel.

Lay it on us, .com friend, please.

 

[25WSM]

Probably don't work on 270 win.

 

[Bro Dave]

I agree that if it takes more than 2 shots, except in competition, something is wrong. But repeatability is based on four major things IMO. The shooter, the quality of the build, the loading and the stress, or lack of stress, in the barreled action. I have a Harmonic Stress Reliever that has never failed to improve the accuracy of any rifle I have used it on. From hunting rifles to 1,000 yd match rifles, they all shot better afterwards. No heat or cold is employed that may affect the quality of the components steel.

What is your "Harmonic Stress Reliever"?

 

[25WSM]

Hey Rich we are never going to know. But let's have some patience it is hunting season.
Shep

 

[GunHawk]

I think we would all agree: intended use is the primary aspect of choosing a barrel:
I am sure there are hunters out there who would be happy if their 300WM weighed 2lbs complete and would be happy to accept the unshod mule kick it will deliver.
Bench rest-it appears heavy is better.
ELR- while the barrels are heavy (20+ pds at times) their length proportionally makes them a lighter contour.
And everything in between.
Is it a one shot cold bore is the criteria, 3 shots, 5 shots, 20rds competition, fire fight unlimited. Each brings their own requirements. Trade offs and compromise.
Fluting does not make a barrel inherently stronger.
It adds a minimal of surface area for cooling unless drastic fluting is employed- back to weaker.
Our designs are focusing on extended competitions and engagements. A note that heavier barrels do have wider nodes, a concept that as of this date we agree with. The wider nodes make load development easier, a more forgiving rifle to shoot in a wider range of environments.
By weight structures are stronger than solids of their same weight. In our case significantly stiffer. We also have well north of more than 300% greater cooling surface. How much does it weigh? Our 300N barrel is 32 x 1.45D and weight 7.2lbs. We don't think about heat until north of 20 round strings. If it is cool outside... keep shooting. We test 25-50 round strings for group size, drift and SD variation.
The images shown are a ladder test from a .375CT. Ten grains in 1/2gr increments. Look at the groups: that is the 20rds with one adjustment to put the rifle on zero. This ladder test also represents round 8 through 28 through this barrel. This is quite common. Six more rounds were shot thru the barrel for prove out out to 2Kyds. Then it went to South Africa and was used to take 3rd and 4th place in K2K and K2M.
Please look at our simulations: you will see tests on barrels not seen before. View attachment 160197 View attachment 160198 View attachment 160197 View attachment 160198

Can you recommend any literature that explains how nodes, harmonics, and tuning works?

 

[Rhett Crider]

Try this site
http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm

 

[leo williams]

Shep, the harmonic stress reliever was developed inWW2, as I understand it. Applications are varied, including welding and NASCAR frames. It is a machine that induces controlled vibration into the subject piece, in this case a rifle. You can do just the barrel or the barreled action, but all loose items must be removed before starting. The item is fastened to a steel frame which is isolated on rubber pads. The harmonic vibrations are controlled at specific frequencies, for a certain time frame. These vibrations reconfigure the matrix of the steel and the result is a stress free firearm. This should be done after all machine work has been completed. With the current computerized model, a before and after print out shows the actual results. There is much more to it but I hope this helps somewhat.