Minimum foot pounds/velocity

[djm670]

You are exactly right about angles and less than ideal. Sometimes you don't get the ideal broadside at the perfect range in hunting. So I like to have a cartridge/bullet combination that has plenty of power to get the job done from any reasonable angle to the vitals. I read an old hunting story years ago about a guy that killed an African elephant with a .22 LR. In my mind just because a cartridge can kill something doesn't make it the best tool for the job. Use plenty of gun with a proper bullet and you'll be fine. Don't push the limits on the lowest velocity it will expand. Just because Hornady says it will expand at 1800 doesn't mean it's going to create a good wound channel, that's just the speed it will open up some.

Curious what bullets you were using on the pigs in the .243/6 mm or 6.5 caliber you were using? I believe either caliber with the correct bullet would handily do the job.
Either caliber in the heavier grain for caliber bullets have good sectional density and will penetrate fine if the correct bullet is used such that it doesn't fragment. While I have not shot any pigs, but having grown up on a Montana ranch, I have shot a number of elk and most with a .25-06 and some with a 6 mm Remington. Mostly one shot kills.

 

[MZmoose]

Those calibers are better than the 6.8spc I was using. Those are real hunting calibers that do have better sectional density. After hunting several different animals with the 6.8 I'm convinced it's a good varmint round. I'll take it coyote hunting.

 

[MZmoose]

The bullets were Hornady 120gr SST, 130 gr Interlocks, 100 gr GMX, and Barnes 95gr ttsx

 

[djm670]

Those calibers are better than the 6.8spc I was using. Those are real hunting calibers that do have better sectional density. After hunting several different animals with the 6.8 I'm convinced it's a good varmint round. I'll take it coyote hunting.

Now I understand... I have never had anything to do with a 6.8scp... was just just looking at the drop and engergy charts. With 60 to 70 inches of drop at 500 yards, one is going to want to use a good range finder and have a lot of vertical travel in his scope if he shoots coyotes out past 300 yards. I suspect that cartridge is a smooth shooting machine though and one probably doesn't need a muzzle brake for follow up shots.

With 1150 to 1350 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards, I suspect for deer that about 125 yards and maybe 150 might be the limit? I have always been kind of operating on the lower limits of effective calibers for elk but this one would be below even my limit. Unless I caught a nice fat cow eating off a hay stack inside a hay corral she had jumped over.

 

[coop2564]

I don't pay any attention to energy per say. Velocity and bullet placement is much more important. Bullet needs to open enough to create a flat surface to stretch and rip enough tissue to create sufficient blood loss, just like a large cal pistol rd with flat meplat=dead animal. So for me the bullet has to open enough to create the ripping effect and not pencil thru. All major bullet brands test their bullets for this min velocity, staying slightly above that would be wise.

 

[Stgraves260]

Just curious, have you done your own testing? When I have contacted Berger for a couple different bullets, they say 1600 fps is the minimum for all of theirs.

It was on Berger Bullets website when I first saw it. It used to be on their boxes minimum velocity 1300 fps for proper expansion. It also said not recommended for game less than 300 yards. Berger stoped putting it on their boxes after Hornady came out w/ their ELDs. I don't why. My girlfriend shot this doe at 62 yards . Looks like good expantion to me.

 

[Stgraves260]

This is the 290 lb hog I dropped at 997 yards with my 260 Rem 140 grain VLDs. According to my Ballistics calculator I still had just under 1700 FPS and about 900 Ft-Lb kinetic energy. I tried to get a shoulder mount with it but the taxidermist said that 300 WM turned the skull to jello. LoL. He said there is no way a 260 REM did this. I told him yep thats what everybody else says. I did shoot a yote( coyote ) at just under 1500 yards and the bullet looked like it was trying to expand. (( FYI this was a clean kill. He dropped in his tracks )). But my ballistics said the bullet was only traveling around 1150 fps. Hince it did not expand. I know when I shoot steel targets at 1350 yards and 1130 feet above sea level my bullets are right at 1300 fps. The bullet just shatter. I did some more testing on some dead yote's at 1350 yards and the bullet expanded with my 260 Rem 140 VLDs. I hope some of the pics are not to graphic. And I Hope I didn't offend you or anybody on here. I have been shooting this 260 Rem sense 1997 so I know it pretty good and what we (260 REM and I ) are capable of. Hornadys bullets used to say 1600 FPS min to expand. So did the accubond LR bullets. It was on their boxes. I have been reloading for almost 40 years. Well I'm 46 years old and started reloading at the age of 8 or 9 with my pop and his friends. Thats just how I grew up prepping for the hunt. I know that when Im shooting game animals at 300 yards or less I shoot the neck. Past 300 yards I shoot high shoulder or the heart. It depends on the angel and the wind condition. Maybe thats why my bullets expand at the 1300 FPS. I just know it has never done me wrong.

 

[Stgraves260]

Here are some pics of a Buck I shot at 900 yards. Again My 260 REM 140 grain berger bullets. This was taken in Abilene in 2017.

 

[Stgraves260]

I had to go back and read more of the questions. Yes sir. Im with you on Ft-Lbs does matter. Lets say you missread your wind call. I have never done that. LoL!! and you are shooting at a white tail, lets say a lung shot and the bullet hit the shoulder bone. Those Ft-Lbs just got important. Because if that bullet does not have the energy to break the shoulder and penetrate the lung you just wounded the animal. Thats just not cool. Yes Ft-Lbs Energy is very important!!!. Know where the heart, lungs are on all animals. You people that hunt elk know what I mean I hope. The lung does no flow back in the center like a white tail. The lung travels up towards the back. There is more to hunting than just knowing your gun. No your target. Study it as if you was digging for gold. Know your target inside and out. If you are going on a African hunt lets say. Get good pics on the animals you are going to hunt and draw on the picks where the heart and lungs are. Don't get just side pics. Get front and back pics also. Remember once that bullet leaves your barrel you can't take it back. Hunt with passion and you will be a respectful hunter on what you are about to do. Harvest your food so you can feed your family.

 

[Stgraves260]

Curious about Cody's question as well. The only bullets (other than subsonic specifics) that advertise such a low velocity threshold are Cutting Edge Lazers and Long Range Accubonds.

I Have heard of the Cutting Edge bullets and the LRA but I have never used them, so I can't comment on them other than what the box says and the reloading manual. The last I read about them they said 1600 FPS on The LRA and I have never looked up the Cutting Edge Bullets. I thank it was a hunting show I heard about them . I thank it was called the " Long Rangers "

 

[Stgraves260]

Young Gun, you are thinking correctly - you need enough impact VELOCITY for the bullet you are using to expand properly. That's job #1. I think 1800 fps is a good, safe threshold for most cup & core bullets in .308 Winchester.

Job 1a (meaning it's just as important as job 1!) is PENETRATION. Getting the bullet to expand is great, but if it comes apart 6" into the animal and stops penetrating, failing to take out the vitals, that's still a failure. So a 165 grain SST out of a .308 Win is probably going to do fine. They are a good match for each other. But fire that same bullet out of a .300 Win Mag into an animal 80 yards away, and that bullet might come apart and fail to get deep due to it's soft construction and the higher than normal impact velocity. I hope that makes sense. Bullet weight and construction should be a good match for the CARTRIDGE its going to be fired out of to minimize chances of failure.

I know when I'm shooting 300 yards and less I shoot the neck. That takes out a lot of the what ifs and not enoughs. LoL (( Ft-Lbs ))

 

[Bravo 4]

[QUOTE="Stgraves260, post: 1692460, member: 19988]The last I read about them they said 1600 FPS on The LRA and I have never looked up the Cutting Edge Bullets.[/QUOTE]
https://shop.nosler.com/nosler-bullets/accubond-long-range-nosler-bullet.html
Nosler advertises it on their website. Maybe that is only some diameter/weights and not all, or maybe a marketing thing like "If you smash them into a brick wall...they will expand!". Just kidding, they wouldn't obviously tell you about the brick wall.
Cutting Edge has each of its Lazers minimum velocities listed when you click on that particular bullet's description. Some of the .30's say down to 1200 fps and some say 1500!fps, same thing with the .375 cal offerings. Actually kind of weird to me.
Looks like your .260 is really getting the job done.

 

[memtb]

For you gentlemen that are convinced of the "ft/ lbs energy" fallacy....please consider reading this!

http://rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

It is a wealth of information. I used to believe the same as you! But, years of handgun hunting, and bow hunting, will quickly bring into question the ft/lbs energy belief! This web-link will clearly show through real world examples, science, and mathematics, the error in following this long supported belief!

I do not mean to insult anyone......merely to attempt to enlighten! For many years, I followed the same beliefs, after all.....all the major ammunition manufacturers proudly labeled their products with this information! memtb

 

[MZmoose]

Arrows kill game differently than bullets so comparing them is pointless. A broadhead is streamlined razor sharp and designed to cut easily thru it's target. The few ft/lbs of an arrow has is used to push the broadhead, it does not use it's energy to expand like a bullet. (Expandible broadheads do use some of that energy which is why they typically penetrate less than a fixed blade). Hunting handguns use hard cast non expanding heavy bullets or bullets that only expand slightly because they are already larger in diameter. But handguns and rifles are using a projectile with a lot of resistance so you need energy to force them thru the target and expand them so they do more damage.