James L Holzhauer
Well-Known Member
I used the Hornady SST 165 in Africa on plains game to good effect. It did very well.
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Minimum foot pounds/velocity
- Thread starter Young Gun 03
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It might very could be but its application can be used in non-dangerous games too.
Stgraves260
Well-Known Member
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- Sep 1, 2009
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You need to know the min FPS for the bullet to expand. Berger bullets are 1300 FPS. Hornady SST are like 1600 - 1800 FPS so you will loose quite a bit of range. Now you will have to study your animals. How many ft-lbs energy does it take to break the shoulder of an animal. 600 for white tail. 800 for mule deer size game, 1000 for elk and 1200 for moose.
MZmoose
Well-Known Member
I was on another forum discussing this same subject and it was terrible. I won't name the forum but it was cartridge specific... I started a thread about the trouble my friends and I had anchoring wild pigs in TX with that cartridge and the bullets I was using. I was asking a question to see if anyone else had the same trouble because it was supposed to be the hot pig cartridge. It got ugly really quick as the internet trolls piped up and told me how I must not have shot them in the vitals, and proceeded to tell me that no pig could stand up to that cartridge, and elk are killed with the cartridge at over 200 yds. I was horrified that someone would be so irresponsible to use that anemic cartridge on a majestic (and tough to kill) elk. We had trouble killing pigs with the cartridge even though they were at short range and no where near the bullets minimum velocity rating. The trolls on that forum said ft/lbs of energy meant nothing. I would disagree. I've been hunting for 32 years and IMO you need an appropriate sized cartridge for the game, appropriate bullet construction and weight for the game, and I would recommend your impact velocity be above the minimum for the bullet out of respect for the game animal. Kill not cripple. We all love the perfect broadside shot but that doesn't always happen so I like the extra power. Oh btw we killed 20 pigs (confirmed kills) with that cartridge and after the hunt we all ordered new uppers for our rifles in a much larger caliber for the next hunt.
Farmerboy78
Well-Known Member
I may be wrong, but here's my idea. It depends on bullet design and construction. You need to choose the right bullet for the game you're hunting. The old design bullets and way of thinking is you needed a certain amount of energy to kill an animal. Modern designs say you need a certain velocity. I think it's in the middle. I would shoot a Cape buffalo with a 22-250 and a 300 h&h is overkill for pronghorn. My middle ground is choose the correct bullet construction and cartridge for the correct game. There will be overlap with the different bullet types
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codyadams
Well-Known Member
Just curious, have you done your own testing? When I have contacted Berger for a couple different bullets, they say 1600 fps is the minimum for all of theirs.
e1harris
Well-Known Member
1800 fps or 1200 ft/lb... whichever comes first, that's my maximum range for all deer to elk sized game. I know that 1200 ft/lb is way too conservative on whitetails, but I'm usually within 200 yards on them anyway so it doesn't matter.
e1harris
Well-Known Member
What I am about to say will sound horrible, I don't mean to make correlations between animals and humans.
However, what you just described is very similar to the problems NATO had in Somalia in the early 90's with 5.56 ammo.
I am unsure of the cartridge you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure what I am about to say pertains quite realistically. PENETRATION (via velocity) MEANS NOTHING at 'relatively' close ranges.
The only thing that matters on Hogs and other 'hyper-active' type animals is either massive expansion or massive bullet weight. I won't shoot anything less powerful than a 150gr .308 Win on Hogs (and a reliably expanding bullet like a Partition or similar).
Curious about Cody's question as well. The only bullets (other than subsonic specifics) that advertise such a low velocity threshold are Cutting Edge Lazers and Long Range Accubonds.
MZmoose
Well-Known Member
The cartridge we were using falls right between a 5.56 and a 7.62 NATO. And I agree with your caliber choice for pigs, one guy in our group had a .308 Win and he had no trouble killing pigs. We had trouble with penetration. Some bullets expanded too wide and stopped and others broke up on the shield or shoulder blades. After seeing that it told me we weren't using enough gun.
Possible poor bullet performance. When we used to go pig hunting as a group, my buddies would bring the whole "arsenal", from 5.56, .243, 30-30, 7mm08, 30-06, .308, .300 WM, .338, 45-70. They all killed well. We would have reloading get-togethers prior to going on the hunts. The right bullet is a beautiful thing. Some of the most "impressive" wounds were with the lowly 30-30 and Leverevolution tipped ammo... sometimes leaving a nearly soccer ball sized exit. Saw quite a few killed with 5.56, DRT. Not saying this is your case, but proper bullet placement makes a big difference. Lot of folks go "hog wild" and shoot poor angles with less than ideal bullet placement.
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Young Gun, you are thinking correctly - you need enough impact VELOCITY for the bullet you are using to expand properly. That's job #1. I think 1800 fps is a good, safe threshold for most cup & core bullets in .308 Winchester.
Job 1a (meaning it's just as important as job 1!) is PENETRATION. Getting the bullet to expand is great, but if it comes apart 6" into the animal and stops penetrating, failing to take out the vitals, that's still a failure. So a 165 grain SST out of a .308 Win is probably going to do fine. They are a good match for each other. But fire that same bullet out of a .300 Win Mag into an animal 80 yards away, and that bullet might come apart and fail to get deep due to it's soft construction and the higher than normal impact velocity. I hope that makes sense. Bullet weight and construction should be a good match for the CARTRIDGE its going to be fired out of to minimize chances of failure.
MZmoose
Well-Known Member
You are exactly right about angles and less than ideal. Sometimes you don't get the ideal broadside at the perfect range in hunting. So I like to have a cartridge/bullet combination that has plenty of power to get the job done from any reasonable angle to the vitals. I read an old hunting story years ago about a guy that killed an African elephant with a .22 LR. In my mind just because a cartridge can kill something doesn't make it the best tool for the job. Use plenty of gun with a proper bullet and you'll be fine. Don't push the limits on the lowest velocity it will expand. Just because Hornady says it will expand at 1800 doesn't mean it's going to create a good wound channel, that's just the speed it will open up some.
