Mil-dot or not: Mil adj. or MOA?

[Michael Eichele]

Traditionally, the MIL system is more user friendly for the metric system and the MOA system for SAE. That is not to say that MILs wont work for SAE and vice/versa. It is largely personal preference. The biggest thing though is to match the reticle with the dials. It sucks to have a MIL reticle and an MOA dial. I have one like that and hate it. My other scope is a MIL/MIL and I love it.

My preference is the MIL system but every shooter has a different style an mentality.

 

[Pdvdh]

If you really don't mind experimenting though and want to go first class give the IOR's a hard look.

I've shot some of the best and most expensive scopes ever made and I'll match my IOR's against any scope priced within at least 600.00 of them.

I'll also mention again I LOVE the MP8 Reticle. As far as I'm concerned it's the best hunting or tactical reticle ever produced. The Horus H37 is a close second.

WR,
Do you use your IORs on heavy recoiling muzzle-braked rifles? The IORs have a reputation for holding up well provided no muzzle brake is in use. But I've had three of their 3-18x42mm Tactical scopes come apart internally when mounted on .300 Win Mag and .338 Edge muzzle-braked rifles.

Never had a problem on my 7mm Rem Mag without a muzzle brake. It took a while for the IOR on the .300 Win Mag to come unglued. But the one on the .338 Edge failed within the first 40 shots fired.

I like the MP-8 best also. But it didn't do me any good while the scopes were in transit back and forth to IOR for warranty repair work. Now I'm using Sightron SIIIs, and the glass in them is equal to the IORs. Better light transmission in the SIIIs, Identical resolution based on my side-by-side comparisons in the field on the 300 yd target.

 

[sp6x6]

I will echo as some others. I like my mil/mil in TMR on a Leupold. I have the mils in memory to 1000 and FFP, HOLDS = dial up. It has held up so far 175 shots on a light 7-2 0z bare 338 Norma taking 2 speed goats and a 6x6 bull

 

[WildRose]

WR,
Do you use your IORs on heavy recoiling muzzle-braked rifles? The IORs have a reputation for holding up well provided no muzzle brake is in use. But I've had three of their 3-18x42mm Tactical scopes come apart internally when mounted on .300 Win Mag and .338 Edge muzzle-braked rifles.

Never had a problem on my 7mm Rem Mag without a muzzle brake. It took a while for the IOR on the .300 Win Mag to come unglued. But the one on the .338 Edge failed within the first 40 shots fired.

I like the MP-8 best also. But it didn't do me any good while the scopes were in transit back and forth to IOR for warranty repair work. Now I'm using Sightron SIIIs, and the glass in them is equal to the IORs. Better light transmission in the SIIIs, Identical resolution based on my side-by-side comparisons in the field on the 300 yd target.

Well my 6-24x50 came off of a .50cal with about a thousand rounds through it. Has no issues.

I shoot it on my 300 rum and have about 200 rounds through it now as well.

the 4-14x50 came off of a 338 Rum and had about 300rnds through it there, no issues.

I've put about 300 more through it on the AR-260 with a brake as well and the AR action does create a significant amount of shock through the whole system due to the bolt operation.

No issues.

My guess would be you just hit a run of bad luck, they should be holding up much better for you. Sorry to hear it!

 

[Scot E]

WR,
Do you use your IORs on heavy recoiling muzzle-braked rifles? The IORs have a reputation for holding up well provided no muzzle brake is in use. But I've had three of their 3-18x42mm Tactical scopes come apart internally when mounted on .300 Win Mag and .338 Edge muzzle-braked rifles.

Never had a problem on my 7mm Rem Mag without a muzzle brake. It took a while for the IOR on the .300 Win Mag to come unglued. But the one on the .338 Edge failed within the first 40 shots fired.

I like the MP-8 best also. But it didn't do me any good while the scopes were in transit back and forth to IOR for warranty repair work. Now I'm using Sightron SIIIs, and the glass in them is equal to the IORs. Better light transmission in the SIIIs, Identical resolution based on my side-by-side comparisons in the field on the 300 yd target.

I am going off memory, spooky, but if I remember correctly there was a run of IOR's, can't remember what year even, that had the issues you described. I think the new ones are okay again after the issues they had. They sure are good scopes. I really like their 2.5-10x42 FFP. It is high up on my want list!

 

[Pdvdh]

Well my 6-24x50 came off of a .50cal with about a thousand rounds through it. Has no issues.

I shoot it on my 300 rum and have about 200 rounds through it now as well.

the 4-14x50 came off of a 338 Rum and had about 300rnds through it there, no issues.

I've put about 300 more through it on the AR-260 with a brake as well and the AR action does create a significant amount of shock through the whole system due to the bolt operation.

No issues.

My guess would be you just hit a run of bad luck, they should be holding up much better for you. Sorry to hear it!

Did the .50, the 300 RUM, and the 338 RUM have muzzle brakes? If the answer is yes, then wow - I am dumbfounded and impressed. I had no problems with mine until installing them on muzzle brake equipped rifles.

 

[Pdvdh]

I am going off memory, spooky, but if I remember correctly there was a run of IOR's, can't remember what year even, that had the issues you described. I think the new ones are okay again after the issues they had. They sure are good scopes. I really like their 2.5-10x42 FFP. It is high up on my want list!

I really like the IORs also. I still have one 3-18x42mm. They are heavier than I prefer, weight-wise, but no more so than NightForce and most other Tactical scopes. There was a number of years when they would come apart internally on muzzle brake equipped rifles in 30 caliber on up. 'Jon A', another LRH member was experiencing the same thing with his 3-18's about the same time I was having these problems. He had at least 3 of them break.

I would like to know that IOR is now producing muzzle brake resilient riflescopes, and that they have finally cured that illness. Which is the purpose of my Post.

 

[Scot E]

I would like to know that IOR is now producing muzzle brake resilient riflescopes, and that they have finally cured that illness. Which is the purpose of my Post.

I will try to find the thread on optics talk or the hide that was talking about this. If i find it I will post a link here.

 

[WildRose]

Did the .50, the 300 RUM, and the 338 RUM have muzzle brakes? If the answer is yes, then wow - I am dumbfounded and impressed. I had no problems with mine until installing them on muzzle brake equipped rifles.

Oh yes! The fifty had that stupid looking JP Artillery muzzle brake on it too and that thing has a punishing shockwave.

 

[Pdvdh]

Here's a Thread that covers the IOR 3-18x42mm failures experienced by Jon A. I had the same experience.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/ior-3-18-x-42-scope-32192/index3.html

 

[alcesgigas]

Did IOR Valada ever resolve the issue (s) you guys had in 2008? If their glass is as clean and clear as S&B I really need to look into them. And indeed that MP-8 is one great reticule. I'm looking into Sightron SIII 6-24x50 also.

 

[Pdvdh]

I don't know that IOR ever solved the problem. I know it hadn't been solved with their Generation III IOR 3-18x scopes. Each new generation of IOR scope came with the hopes that the internal failure problems would be fixed. Gen I, II, and IIIs all failed. Whether or not the Generation IV models have corrected the problem or not I don't know.

Which is why I Posted within this Thread of yours. The 3-18x IORs weigh about 30 oz and now cost about $1600. The 6-24x50mm Sightron SIII 2-MOA scope weighs about 23 oz and costs about $785. I now own one IOR and three Sightron SIIIs. So I guess you know which scope I recommend between these two, as the best value for the money. My SIII transmitted more light and had just as good of resolution as my IOR when compared in the field, side-by-side.

 

[alcesgigas]

I sent a PM (private message?), but don't know if it got out. We got some residual effects from that superstorm on the NW coast and it's challenging my dish...

 

[Pdvdh]

I sent a PM (private message?), but don't know if it got out. We got some residual effects from that superstorm on the NW coast and it's challenging my dish...

I received your PM. I'd really like to know if IOR corrected the internal design of their 3-18x rifle scope. Hopefully some one that's right on top of that subject matter will sound in here. Whatever model and vintage year of IOR scope WildRose has is obviously tough as nails to survive the pounding he put it through on his 50 cal BMG, or even his 338 and 300 RUMs.

Here's a few threads to read about the Sightron SIIIs, in case you're exploring them as a mid-cost, lighter weight scope.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/sightron-77792/

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/scope-choices-80535/

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/i-need-decide-scope-80129/index3.html#post566083 Kevin Cram is a gunsmith that builds LRH rifles and he and some of his shooting pals have migrated to the SIII scopes.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/4-16x50-vs-6-24x50-vortex-viper-pst-80171/index2.html Jon A studies and uses a lot of scopes. I see him recommending the Vortex Viper PST and a Weaver 3-15 EMDR in his post in this Thread.

UBB Message - Sniper's Hide Forums However from this Thread on Sniper's Hide, the Sightron SIII was judged to have the superior glass over the Weaver 3-15X:

How clear is the glass on the Weaver 15x? I have heard recent posts of the reticle being blurry and unable to come into focus at 15x? Also, how easy are the half mil lines to see? Sorry for all the questions just trying to decide if I should grab this scope or bit the bullet and spend the extra for a SS 5-20x but it's a lot more $$$!

I've had both (not at the same time) and have compared them both to a Sightron SIII 6-24X50 as a baseline. At 15X, the Sightron beat out the Weaver in every category. In broad daylight, the difference was negligible. At low light, the difference was apparent. At 20X the Sightron and Super Sniper were neck and neck with the Sightron barely edging out in very low light.

That's not to say the Weaver glass is bad, just saying its not quite up to the Super Sniper. Save if you can.

As far as other features go, I was very impressed with the Weaver.