Manners Riflestocks: Customer Service

[FURMAN]

I agree with you there is no need for 6-12 month wait for products like these in 2017 , they take there good old time like doctors do while you sit in a waiting room for hours .

Think about that for a minute. Does that actually make any business sense? We have become a McDonalds society. We claim we want quality but don't want to wait. I have zero problem waiting. The problem comes when they don't meet promise times. Just tell me how long so I will know.

 

[Remtac]

If you don't want to read the whole rant skip to the bottom.

I don't know if I am out of line, but Manners Composite Stocks (MCS) really dropped the ball. I ordered a stock on April 1st. I was told there would be a six month wait to get the stock I wanted. I am fine with that so I order the stock to my specifications. The back and forth between MCS and I was a little annoying to get the stock the way I want but I will chalk that up to me not knowing what I am doing.

Its minor, but the proper way to do the sale would have been for them to ask me questions about my shooting style, gun type, objectives, dreams, and all the rest to recommend the right/perfect stock. They also should have probably tried to "upsell" me by telling me the other options that would also fit my needs (it isn't really upselling, its getting the customer the right product. what a good company should do, not to mention they would have made more profit!).

I asked for the detachable magazine bottom for my rifle (long action) and the stock would come with a free magazine. They didn't ask what caliber I was shooting and didn't recommend any specific magazine size. I later found out they had 30-06 and 300wm sized magazines and I had the 300wm on my order form. I called back and had that changed to the 30-06 sized mag. I again will chalk that up to my not being a professional; however, that experience could have been avoided by MCS with a simple question "What caliber is your gun?"

Next I ordered a Tubbs double stage trigger. Totally opposite customer service experience and they got me the right thing to fit my needs without me having to know the product lineup better than they did. Absolutely love that trigger by the way. Again, fantastic customer assistance and got me what I needed when I needed it.

Back to MCS, I installed the Tubbs trigger to my rifle and it is quite a bit bigger than the Timney I had installed previously, so I had to modify the Lone Wolf stock to make it fit. Not a big deal and my own problem because I ordered the trigger after I had the gun built. I called MCS back and asked if they had started my stock yet, they told me it was in the queue but wasn't started. Cool, so I told them I had the new trigger and that it was bigger than the standard Rem trigger and I wanted to know if it would fit. They had no clue, maybe they had never been asked about the Tubb trigger, but the mini-chassis I had requested had a large cut out for triggers and if I had any issues I could just modify the chassis to fit. Again, pretty much my problem, but customer service was lacking in knowledge and unwilling to help a customer with an issue.

As a side note, these stocks aren't cheap, and a premium product should come with premium service.

So October comes and goes (6 month mark); hey its a little late but quality takes time, right? I hear nothing, no email, no call.

Side note 2 - I am deployed to Afghanistan this whole time so that adds to some of the challenge of the order process. Didn't hurt my order with Vortex (red dot for my "work rifle"), Tubbs with my trigger, or US Optics with my new scope (another fantastic customer service experience by the way). I was on home for leave, set up the trigger put on the US Optics scope.

November comes and goes, nothing heard "MCS will email or call when stock is ready for delivery..." it clearly says at the bottom of every email I have received.

December, what do you know, nothing heard. Shock!

It is now January, time to give them a call and see what is going on. Ring up MCS, ask about the stock and they have no idea so they will "check it out and call me back." (I asked for an email because Afghanistan, and the did that).

3-4 days later I get a one line email "...stock should be done in 2-3 weeks. It needs to go through final finish and have the tub system put on. If you have any questions, please call us."

No "sorry," no "we F'ed up our bad," nothing.

I wasn't mad before, but getting this one line BS statement without a reason for the delay and then another PROMISE they would have it done in, oh... hmmm... 2-3 weeks. Set me off.

I have worked in sales as a side part time job, and when I was younger. A royal mess up of missing a delivery date by 3 months (50% over the expected delivery date) would have at very least gotten me written up. In my current position I would have been looking at some serious disciplinary action for missing a promised delivery date on a product.

TL,DR - Basically everything was fine and I was willing to over look all the issues I had, but that one line (probably trying to cover up that they had totally forgot to even build my stock) set me off. I am furious and I don't know if I should be. If they said 6 months I expect 6 months OR LESS!!!! if they didn't think they could do it, had to order parts, or some other issue they should have emailed me to explain or promised delivery in 12 months and surprise me when it was done early. Under promise over deliver, the motto of every good sales person.

Anyone else have garbage experience from a "high-end" manufacturer? I know there is nothing I can do about any of this and I hope the stock is worth it in the end. Right now I wouldn't recommend this company to anyone. Such a shame.

Rant over.

I feel like copy and pasting off your rant and emailing to manners and telling them i want to order a stock from you guys but will I get this kinda service .

 

[Remtac]

It makes sense in a business standpoint. If you have a 12-15 month wait time for a product you could probably hire more people to get the stuff out quicker. But then you would be paying more labor when people are already willing to wait.

Anyway, it isn't the wait or down payment that matters, its the promises broken, deadlines missed, lack of salesmanship, and general unprofessionalism that I am fed up with.

The old saying goes "cheap, fast, or quality. you can only pick 2.

I only got one, quality. Cheap Manners is not.
Fast? yeah give me a break

When they do build these I bet it don't take longer then a couple hours to build one

 

[FURMAN]

They make money on the service part of this process. They are paying a person to make a stock. Paying another person to make more stocks is not the problem. In a perfect world they would hire ten more people or twenty more people and make ten-twenty times the stocks and increase their profits 10-20 times. If it were that simple you bet they would do it. There is a break over point between profit and quality. I guarantee Tom thinks he is at or near that point. Increase production and therefore decreasing wait times will most likely decrease quality. It is no secret it only takes them 2-3 weeks to make a stock. It is no secret that you are waiting in a Queue. Increasing production is not always an answer especially in a niche market when the biggest things the customers are paying for are customization and quality. Like it has been said elsewhere in this thread waiting is not the issue. The issue starts at missed promised dates and not being truthful and upfront.

 

[Edd]

When they do build these I bet it don't take longer then a couple hours to build one

I don't know how many employees they have but, based on my order numbers, they are making about 21 stocks per day. I suspect Tom Manners would be thrilled if he could produce a stock for every 2 hours labor he pays for.

I looked at my last order and it doesn't state a completion date. I asked for a special process on mine that I know was a nuisance for them and they allowed it.

 

[Scottytuned]

When they do build these I bet it don't take longer then a couple hours to build one

That may be the case, but if you have 10,000 in front of you, the wait is long. Now imagine you get customers changing orders in the queue, and now every 5th stock takes 10 minutes longer, that is an extra 41 days that the stock at the end of the line takes to finish.

Now I am not defending Manners. I don't own a Manners (someday I would love to if I could afford it). While it would be great if every manufacturer could stick to their ESTIMATED timeline (rarely are they truly set), production issues come in, staff changes, and delays can happen. Rarely do people create positive threads of the things that came in days, weeks, or months earlier, but they do for the times they have to wait longer. If anything, Manners and every other company has the most to lose by not finishing on time, and they know it. The more they could turn out, the more positive reviews they get, the more money they make.

While it is unfortunate they missed the mark on this stock, I don't seem to hear a lot of bad reviews once people have them in their guns. If Manners spends an extra few months on my future stock to ensure I get a perfect product that doesnt need sent back (like other manufacturers seem to do), then I would be fine waiting. While we would always love constant communication of where we are in queue, do remember that the more time being spent on emails means the less time being spent on production.

I think Manners does post on here, so maybe they can chime in, but quality takes time, and it is unfortunate you had to wait.

 

[FURMAN]

That may be the case, but if you have 10,000 in front of you, the wait is long. Now imagine you get customers changing orders in the queue, and now every 5th stock takes 10 minutes longer, that is an extra 41 days that the stock at the end of the line takes to finish.

Now I am not defending Manners. I don't own a Manners (someday I would love to if I could afford it). While it would be great if every manufacturer could stick to their ESTIMATED timeline (rarely are they truly set), production issues come in, staff changes, and delays can happen. Rarely do people create positive threads of the things that came in days, weeks, or months earlier, but they do for the times they have to wait longer. If anything, Manners and every other company has the most to lose by not finishing on time, and they know it. The more they could turn out, the more positive reviews they get, the more money they make.

While it is unfortunate they missed the mark on this stock, I don't seem to hear a lot of bad reviews once people have them in their guns. If Manners spends an extra few months on my future stock to ensure I get a perfect product that doesnt need sent back (like other manufacturers seem to do), then I would be fine waiting. While we would always love constant communication of where we are in queue, do remember that the more time being spent on emails means the less time being spent on production.

I think Manners does post on here, so maybe they can chime in, but quality takes time, and it is unfortunate you had to wait.

Very well said.

 

[ohiohunter]

I'm not familiar w/ stock building but I do know krieger builds barrels by caliber. You could have a 2wk wait or 6mo wait depending on when you place your order relative to their process.

Delays happen, mechanical failure is a reality. No one knows what goes on behind the scene. Too many factors to consider. No one likes the wait times, but hey, no one said you had to order to your exact specs. You can always buy from someone who has a stock in stock, you may not like the style, but there's no wait.

 

[NuttyLemur]

To me it all goes back to a promise of a 6 month wait. I was fine with that.

When month 6 hits they could have given me a call or an email and have the courtesy of asking if I was willing to wait another 4-6 months "due to unprecedented order volume and the attention they pay to customers that ordered before me," (whatever they wanted to say here, it doesn't matter) or would I like to order an already made stock that is close to my specifications and take 50$ off.

I would have said, "nah I hear awesome things about your stocks and I appreciate you giving 30 seconds of time to email/call me and let me know things are running behind. Excellent customer service, I will come back again."

I am a single buyer with just one stock and probably not a lot of profit for Manners when all is said and done; compared to meeting a deadline with stockystocks when they order by the truckload.

It isn't the wait, it isn't the price; its the lack of courtesy or an apology. If I was important, a competitor, a business or big in the shooting industry; I am sure I would have been treated differently.

Customer service isn't hard; just treat us like you would a friend or hell just the way you yourself want to be treated (golden rule) and not a number.

I will probably order another one, I am a glutton for punishment, and I still need to finish my .22 training rifle to match. Thus I will become part of the problem, they treat me like trash and I come back for more.

 

[bigngreen]

To me it all goes back to a promise of a 6 month wait. I was fine with that.

When month 6 hits they could have given me a call or an email and have the courtesy of asking if I was willing to wait another 4-6 months "due to unprecedented order volume and the attention they pay to customers that ordered before me," (whatever they wanted to say here, it doesn't matter) or would I like to order an already made stock that is close to my specifications and take 50$ off.

I would have said, "nah I hear awesome things about your stocks and I appreciate you giving 30 seconds of time to email/call me and let me know things are running behind. Excellent customer service, I will come back again."

I am a single buyer with just one stock and probably not a lot of profit for Manners when all is said and done; compared to meeting a deadline with stockystocks when they order by the truckload.

It isn't the wait, it isn't the price; its the lack of courtesy or an apology. If I was important, a competitor, a business or big in the shooting industry; I am sure I would have been treated differently.

Customer service isn't hard; just treat us like you would a friend or hell just the way you yourself want to be treated (golden rule) and not a number.

I will probably order another one, I am a glutton for punishment, and I still need to finish my .22 training rifle to match. Thus I will become part of the problem, they treat me like trash and I come back for more.

Funny thing, I've NEVER been promised anything, I've been told estimated times but never a personal promise!
You must not have used the online stock builder?

 

[ohiohunter]

SO you want them to call you 1 of thousands, not vice versa? If I were the impatient party I would be a bit more proactive on my end. I would call them and check my place in line, not expect someone to call me and say hey youre 30th in line... call again, hey youre 5th in line.. hey.. your stock is being made.

Sounds like a crazy chick head game to me.

 

[Pdvdh]

Funny thing, I've NEVER been promised anything, I've been told estimated times but never a personal promise!
You must not have used the online stock builder?

Me neither. Promises are expensive. Ask anyone that's been thru a divorce...

 

[NuttyLemur]

SO you want them to call you 1 of thousands, not vice versa? If I were the impatient party I would be a bit more proactive on my end. I would call them and check my place in line, not expect someone to call me and say hey youre 30th in line... call again, hey youre 5th in line.. hey.. your stock is being made.

Sounds like a crazy chick head game to me.

Yeah, i guess i could see that.

Still missing my point though, i am not mad about the time. I am annoyed with the crap service i got, and the constant corrections i had to tell them. They are supposed to know the product better than me. I was told the wait time was 'about' 6 months. we made a verbal contract on time and we made a written contract on price and construction. If they fail to meet the deadline they should have called or emailed to explain.

When they sold me the stock they should have asked the questions need to make sure i was going to be happy, they didn't. Almost guaranteeing i would use their customer satisfaction clause when it doesn't come out the way i want.

When they told me the time it would take they should have said they were at 12 months wait time and then delivered it to me, hopefully, in the next 3 weeks which is at 9 or 10 months.

under promise, over deliver.

Finally, when i did ask them what was up, i wasn't angry. I am still in Afghanistan for another month or two so i am not in a hurry. Own up to your mistake. if they would have just said sorry i wouldn't have gotten so bent out of shape. It isn't what they did (well a little bit) it was how they did it. A lot of people don't think it matters, but to me it does. When i make a mistake i own up to it, taken me many years to get to that point and it isnt always easy to do.

In every email it says at the bottom, we will call you when the stock is done. Why would i call them to check where my stock is?

I could have called earlier, i admit that, but i don't care when it is delivered. I just expected them to not take 2 days to email me back about where the stock was and i expected them to at least apologize for blowing their deadline. I don't want money off, i don't want a free anything. I just want to be treated like i am spending 1500 bucks.

 

[ohiohunter]

Partner, trust me.. your money means far more to you than anyone else.