I'm working on a load for either Hornady ' s 105 grain hpbt or the A-max. I have a few 1/2" groups at 100 yds so far. I haven't shot it farther yet so I'm not really sure if it's going to pan out. This is out of a Savage 12 vlp....9.25" twist barrel.
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looking for a .243 bullet with the highest bc for 9.25 twist
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westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
In this thread the response from Hornady regarding twist rate for the 105gr Amax, the answer was that 2900fps was not a fast enough MV to stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel.
Looking at Hodgdon reloading data, the only load higher than 2900fps is a compressed load of IMR 7977 which I have never heard of, let alone seen or bought.
Thus, the 105 Amax is likely to be marginally stable at best out of a 1:9.25 twist.
My opinion on this subject is that it does not take a lot of reloading components to equal the cost of a 1:8 match barrel. The value equation is all the more significant when you consider that your "brand new" factory barrel is worth something, whereas a barrel with hundreds of rounds through it is worthless. So if you need a better barrel, get it right away and sell a pristine new barrel to save up to half the cost of the investment. Then you can shoot the heaviest bullets you can lay your hands on with complete confidence and stop messing with marginal loads that are sometimes on target and other times not (due to temperature and velocity dependence for stability).
Looking at Hodgdon reloading data, the only load higher than 2900fps is a compressed load of IMR 7977 which I have never heard of, let alone seen or bought.
Thus, the 105 Amax is likely to be marginally stable at best out of a 1:9.25 twist.
My opinion on this subject is that it does not take a lot of reloading components to equal the cost of a 1:8 match barrel. The value equation is all the more significant when you consider that your "brand new" factory barrel is worth something, whereas a barrel with hundreds of rounds through it is worthless. So if you need a better barrel, get it right away and sell a pristine new barrel to save up to half the cost of the investment. Then you can shoot the heaviest bullets you can lay your hands on with complete confidence and stop messing with marginal loads that are sometimes on target and other times not (due to temperature and velocity dependence for stability).
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
years back I had a couple 6mm's with the nine twist. Tried the Berger 88LD bullets, and 80% of shots were unstable. But they also seemed to be either horrid or just slightly unstable (weird?). Yet the Hornaday 85 and 87 grains shot perfect, as did the 90 and 95 grain bullets from just about everybody. The SST bullets seem to max out at about 3200fps (per Hornaday), and they just about fit your velocity window perfectly. Plus they are an excellent hunting bullet.
gary
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
That is not the message from .243 Win + .243 AI Cartridge Guide
There are a few exceptions, but thats what they are. Many factory barrels are less than 26" and will be even lower. Many factory barrels will have more drag due to not being lapped.
The Ackley loads on 6mmbr are for competition shooters looking for the highest node, and I would not say are representative of the general population. Many of the high velocities also list using moly or other low friction coatings on the bullets.
There are a few exceptions, but thats what they are. Many factory barrels are less than 26" and will be even lower. Many factory barrels will have more drag due to not being lapped.
The Ackley loads on 6mmbr are for competition shooters looking for the highest node, and I would not say are representative of the general population. Many of the high velocities also list using moly or other low friction coatings on the bullets.
???OK. It is not difficult to moly bullets before loading them and to be honest, that load data looks very conservative. Try more like 48-49 grains of H1000 and I don't see any 7828 loads or Retumbo or Magpro or....get my drift? By all means, if you want a 1 in 8 barrel...get one! I would. Just saying that people are getting 105's to work in 1 in 9.25" twist barrels.
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westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
There is always a wiseguy who right off the bat recommends loads way in excess of listed maximums and this can get people killed. I wonder if the family of the OP will spare you their legal wrath if he blows half his skull away based on your recommendation ?
Hodgdon has the following to say about the recommendation that you made
So according to the maker of the powder, you are suggesting using 2-3 grain over their stated max charge ? And doing that is being smart ? You are avoiding buying a $340 barrel, but potentially get someones head blown off driving bullets fast enough to stabilize ?
Hodgdon has the following to say about the recommendation that you made
So according to the maker of the powder, you are suggesting using 2-3 grain over their stated max charge ? And doing that is being smart ? You are avoiding buying a $340 barrel, but potentially get someones head blown off driving bullets fast enough to stabilize ?
EricL
Well-Known Member
My savage 12 LRP shoots 95 grain SMKs really well but I live at 7500' altitude and according to bergers twist rate calculator that helps stabilize a lot...
There is always a wiseguy who right off the bat recommends loads way in excess of listed maximums and this can get people killed. I wonder if the family of the OP will spare you their legal wrath if he blows half his skull away based on your recommendation ?
Hodgdon has the following to say about the recommendation that you made
So according to the maker of the powder, you are suggesting using 2-3 grain over their stated max charge ? And doing that is being smart ? You are avoiding buying a $340 barrel, but potentially get someones head blown off driving bullets fast enough to stabilize ?
LOL....I'm done. Do what you want and I'll keep shooting 105's out of my 9.25" twist Savage. "Wise guy" out.....
I understand working with what you have but before I attempt anything near a 105 amax I'm going to rebarrel. There's lots of things I'll push the limit on but I generally respect published data when it comes to laying my face on top of an explosion, perfectly safe as long as the barrel contains it... the one time it doesn't might be the last time. When I began reloading the old man I learned from said, "ever heard the expression playing with fire might get burned?, well son getting burned is nothing compared to blowing the f**** up." That old man weighed every load on two scales he told me it was excessive but garaunteed me he had never once messed up nor would he. No disrespect intended all replies posted with good intentions are apreciated. And BTW I trust you guys and all but I'm not loading anything until I verify published data lol
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
I thought there were rules regarding the use of over max loads.
- You keep such load data to yourself and don't suggest newbies use it.
- You do not hand your rifle, loaded with such ammo to another unsuspecting shooter to fire
- You hope your life insurance is paid up...
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
Grafs has the 95gr SMK in stock for around 30c a bullet Graf & Sons - SIERRA 6MM(.243)95gr HPBT BULLET MATCHKING 100/bx
I think you could do a lot worse than trying those. A 95gr bullet with a good BC that you can stabilize will shoot considerably better than something that is marginally stabilized and give erratic performance. One is also safely able to get more powder behind a 95gr than a 105gr.
Unfortunately for me, I got started with this hobby in mid 2011 so there was a very short period when it was easy to buy just about anything you needed (which I didn't know I needed yet, as it turns out) before the series of mass shootings and subsequent pandemonium. So in several years, the only SMK bullets I was able to get were some 175SMK in 30 caliber that were sold as "Grafs" branded seconds.
The 105gr Amax was discontinued by Hornady for a few years during the crisis but now they are back at it again.
I think you could do a lot worse than trying those. A 95gr bullet with a good BC that you can stabilize will shoot considerably better than something that is marginally stabilized and give erratic performance. One is also safely able to get more powder behind a 95gr than a 105gr.
Unfortunately for me, I got started with this hobby in mid 2011 so there was a very short period when it was easy to buy just about anything you needed (which I didn't know I needed yet, as it turns out) before the series of mass shootings and subsequent pandemonium. So in several years, the only SMK bullets I was able to get were some 175SMK in 30 caliber that were sold as "Grafs" branded seconds.
The 105gr Amax was discontinued by Hornady for a few years during the crisis but now they are back at it again.
I realize I'm late to this one but I have a remmy VLS with the same twist as your savage. The Berger 87gr shot great, BUT the cutting edge 88gr MTH shot incredibly better. I've taken white tails with this bullet out of my "varmint" gun and the internal damage was impressive to say the least. The only down side to these bullets is they are somewhat costly. They are definitely not paper punchers or varmint bullets.
Regards,
Erik
Regards,
Erik
I have a Remington 700 ADL Varmint in .243 with the factory 26" 1:9.125 twist barrel and I worked up a load using 105gr A-MAXs at 3050fps with 45.7gr of IMR 7828ssc. This is above max in most books, Lee lists a 100gr with 47.0grs as max and that load pushed a 100gr Sierra GameKing at a chronographed 3090fps. The A-MAXs shot sub half-MOA at 100yds, but didn't stabilize at 500yds. I am going to mess with seating depth and see if I can get them to work. Hornady recommends a 1:9 Twist with the 105s, but I don't see how an 1/8 inch and with my velocity is holding me back. Sometimes stuff just doesn't work out haha
