Longest shot +1500 yard hunting?

[Shawn Carlock]

It seems to me that the original line of this topic was to gather info about 1500+ yard game kills. I believe that we have gotten a bit off topic. I have not taken big game past 1500+ from lack of opportunity mostly. I have spent a number of hours practicing past 2000 yards, I have filmed and watched a 1935 yard big game kill. Of this extreme range kill I can say it was under special circumstances along with the ability to have sighted in on the area intended to be shot on the day prior. I have shot out to distances approaching 3000 yards in practice and can say some of those shots would have x ringed any big game anima, some would not have. I beleive that these extreme range shots are possible under the right conditions etc. It disappoints me to see someone condem a practice that is not possible for them by saying it just flatly is not right for anyone. I remember hearing the same exact statement when I first started long range hunting a day or two ago about 1000 yard shooting and now it is fairly common by serious long range hunters. In parting I just hate to see the gathering of information and expanding of boundries being held back by general opinion about what is and is not possible. What becomes possible is made that way by those doing it. In the end everyone is intitled to their opinion but I still believe in the lead, follow or stand aside version and try not to hold people who want to lead back.

 

[Broz]

It seems to me that the original line of this topic was to gather info about 1500+ yard game kills. I believe that we have gotten a bit off topic. I have not taken big game past 1500+ from lack of opportunity mostly. I have spent a number of hours practicing past 2000 yards, I have filmed and watched a 1935 yard big game kill. Of this extreme range kill I can say it was under special circumstances along with the ability to have sighted in on the area intended to be shot on the day prior. I have shot out to distances approaching 3000 yards in practice and can say some of those shots would have x ringed any big game anima, some would not have. I beleive that these extreme range shots are possible under the right conditions etc. It disappoints me to see someone condem a practice that is not possible for them by saying it just flatly is not right for anyone. I remember hearing the same exact statement when I first started long range hunting a day or two ago about 1000 yard shooting and now it is fairly common by serious long range hunters. In parting I just hate to see the gathering of information and expanding of boundries being held back by general opinion about what is and is not possible. What becomes possible is made that way by those doing it. In the end everyone is intitled to their opinion but I still believe in the lead, follow or stand aside version and try not to hold people who want to lead back.

I agree Shawn, Very well stated and Thank You for the post.

Jeff gun)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------lightbulb

 

[longrangefreek]

I also agree with you Shawn. Very well said!!

 

[yobuck]

i agree also jeff it was well put. but i disagree as well at least on some points.
you and i have discussed how far we would attempt to shoot at an animal
with our 7x300s. at what point do we stop with any of them?

my sons used to shoot at rocks from our yard with 22 mags.
thanks to funky scope setups and calm days they could hit rocks past 700 yds.
lets be perfectly honest here, to a large degree shooting 2000yds and beyond
is no different than that regardless of the gun used.
certainly we can argue the remaining energy figures on specific cartridges but that wont accuratly hit the target.
theres a world of difference between 1000 and 2000 yds. as we all know.
which is exactly why most of us havent killed anything that far.
at some point it becomes more scope manipulation than rifle ability.
all to the credit of the shooter no doubt.
but their is no argument at least in my mind that it becomes a very grey area.

im certainly not trying to create any enemys here or anywhere. but at my age
im not much worried about new friends either.
shooting at rocks and steel plates at extreme distances is one thing.
but shooting at live targets is quite another.
were either going to control ourselves in that regard or somebody will be doing it for us.

 

[Broz]

Yobuck since you addressed me personally I will give my reply. Like Shawn stated, things are changing to allow alot better accuracy at well past 1000 yards. These things only matter to the long range shooter that is willing to make the commitment, both financially, and physically with the dedicated time practicing at these distancs, and with the new equipment. The tried and true Vari X III with target turrets, a 10 year old or maybe even 5 year old technology rangefinder is not what I would be using to take a shot on game at 1500 plus. But with the rifle I have ordered from Shawn, a Vectronix RF and an up to date field tested and proven ballistics program, I would feel pretty confident if condtions were good and stable. I have done my homework and made the commitment with all my equipment and also know what bullet I would choose to do the job. There may be a 1500+ yard kill in my future, if it is presented in an enviorment I feel comfortable in. Much farther than that and I will be using a near target for the first shot and then correct for the shot at the animal. If it runs off, .. Oh well, so be it. I truely believe things are progressing to allow this knd of shot, but it should only be taken if the shooter is confdent, has practiced it and the conditions are right.
As far as your ethics debate. Well.... I grew up watching deer maimed by slug guns in thick timber at 30 yards. The long range shot is no different than a guy that takes a running deer shot in timber. I say if he has practiced it and is confident for a good kill, go for it. But like Shawn said, "I just hate to see the gathering of information and expanding of boundries being held back by general opinion about what is and is not possible. What becomes possible is made that way by those doing it. In the end everyone is intitled to their opinion but I still believe in the lead, follow or stand aside version and try not to hold people who want to lead back."

Jeff

 

[Broz]

. If it runs off, .. Oh well, so be it.

Since this site will not allow an edit, Let me clairify this before a naysayer gets ahold of it. This statement means if the 1st sighter shot scares the game off before a second shot is fired. Not "runs off" after the shot at the animal.

Jeff

 

[Augustus]

Folks, I am all for pushing the limits, as a matter of fact I have been pushing the limits with the rest of you for a long time now. What I am opposed to is seeing more videos similar to the one posted some time ago of three stooges deer hunting with a 50 BMG. It showed these guys shooting at a buck at around 200 yds. The first Rd completely missed, the next Rd shot his front leg off. Then the video showed these fools dancing around all the while giggling like a bunch of school girls. That sort of thing makes me want to puke.

The same thing that makes me want to puke makes other folks want to grab the nearest anti hunting banner and start making noise. Anyway Personally I am not a big fan of hunting videos, I really can't explain the duality of my personality. I love to hunt but I want the animal to die as quickly and painlessly as possible and I really don't want any videos of the kill. Also there was a statement made that indicated any one opposed to shooting animals at say 2000 plus yds must be someone not capable of doing so themselves.

Since this is a thread that asked the question about ELR kills, I will have to admit I did kill a hog a very long ways. I finally got to the animal and as I stood over him, I had a heart to heart talk with myself. I discovered There was no need for me to shoot the hog from that distance, as a matter of fact I chose the firing point over several other locations much closer. So, I had to admit to myself the only reason I attempted the shot was simply to see if I could do it. After all, it was just a hog, right? Anyway, from now on shots such as that one will be reserved for rocks and steel plates, it accomplishes the same thing as shooting at a live animal and when it comes time to hunting or culling I will get within a reasonable distance to deliver the shot.

 

[Broz]

Augustus, I understand your choice completely. You are 100% entitled to do what feels right for you. But, don't you feel others are entitled to make the decision of what works for them too? Some may choose not to use a bow, some may choose to never take a running shot at even a close distance. Some may take head shots if they feel the odds are in favor. I feel it should be a personal choice and up to the hunter, not what someone else states you should or shouldn't do because of their personal feelings or beliefs.

Jeff

 

[longrangefreek]

Unfortuneately in life there are critics and opposers everywhere. (as in tree huggers and sorts) In my oppinion it comes down to the maturity of the person and the persons skill level. there are guys on this forum that I have no doubt could kill animals at 0ver 1 mile. I also know there are guys out there that should not shoot over 100 yards. everyone is entitled to their oppinion on this subject but it is just your oppinion. everyone has a different skill level and should be responsible enough to know his or hers limits in any situation given in a hunt. i went out just the other day and shot out to 1893 yards and hit my target 8 out of 8 times. now would i have taken the shot if it was an animal inthe conditions I was given? No- but that is cause conditions were not perfect. yes i was very accurate but it is a rock yote. the wind was gusting up to 14 mph. it was not good hunting conditions but great practice conditions. knowing ones limitations in the field is essential and should be demanded of ourselves at all times.

It is nice to read threads like this with everyone giving their oppinions on these issues and able to do it in a respectful manner. You all have great points on this topic and I respect them.

 

[Augustus]

Broz, I am just sharing my feelings on the subject. This discussion is a testament to the caliber of folks on this site. Even though this is a touchy subject there has been no name calling or disrespectful attacks.

I suspect My views may be in the minority here and it appears the powers that be has decided to let this discussion run a little ways. Thanks for being open to opposing views. I really don't see any real differences here, we all like to shoot things way over yonder. I just happen believe there should be self imposed limits where living things are the targets. Well anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and shut up. Oh, I guess there was a little name calling when I discussed the video of the BMG shooting the Mule Deer. You boys look that one up and tell me if I was out of line.

Here is my final take on the matter, get the best equipment and training possible. Practice way past the distances you intend to hunt, be brutally honest about your limitations and the limitations of your equipment. If a little doubt creeps in just before you break the shot, flip the safety back on and enjoy watching the animal amble on it's way to be hunted another day.

 

[Broz]

Here is my final take on the matter, get the best equipment and training possible. Practice way past the distances you intend to hunt, be brutally honest about your limitations and the limitations of your equipment. If a little doubt creeps in just before you break the shot, flip the safety back on and enjoy watching the animal amble on it's way to be hunted another day.

That is good by me Augustus, One of the things Shawn teaches in his class too. I have quoted him before but I will do it again here.

" If I don't feel I will be totally amazed if I miss the shot, I will not take it on an animal" Shawn Carlock

Thanks for the discussion boys. I hope if I come on here one day with a kill at a mile or so you will all know it was not just a "poke and hope" I am not on a mission, but if the shot is there and conditions are right I will take it, as I have and will continue to practice this shot.

Jeff

 

[Shawn Carlock]

Here is my final take on the matter, get the best equipment and training possible. Practice way past the distances you intend to hunt, be brutally honest about your limitations and the limitations of your equipment. If a little doubt creeps in just before you break the shot, flip the safety back on and enjoy watching the animal amble on it's way to be hunted another day.


Well said, I like this a lot better than mentaly setting a limit for everyone, you couldn't have said it any better.

 

[HARPERC]

Here is my final take on the matter, get the best equipment and training possible. Practice way past the distances you intend to hunt, be brutally honest about your limitations and the limitations of your equipment. If a little doubt creeps in just before you break the shot, flip the safety back on and enjoy watching the animal amble on it's way to be hunted another day.


Well said, I like this a lot better than mentaly setting a limit for everyone, you couldn't have said it any better.

I like this as well, I like that Shawn likes it also. I'm a free thinking individual, and prefer to let others define their own limits. Collectively we share limited resources. Those limited resources are becoming more so for a variety of reasons. Cripples and unrecovered animals are a part of the equation used by game departments to decide opportunity. Long range is an easy target for game departments to address the issue and claim they have done something. Idaho has a weight limit etc. on rifles. Back in the early days of LRH being publicized, there was a study of collared elk indicating only about 1/3 of rifle kills were recovered. It also indicated only about 20% of archers recovered. PR wise we were, and are, an easy target. Arguments about what makes a proper elk cartridge continue without resolution as well. I passed on a 300 yard Mt Goat shot-the wind was high enough we shouldn't have been on the mountain. I clothes lined a guide because the wind caught his pack and was pushing him to the edge. Why target just distance? There is an element in our society that hates what we do , and will spin anything, and everything. Nothing but abolishing the sport will satisfy them. However that's not a reason to fall on our own sword. I think we agree more than comes through in this limited medium. Truly respects to all of you.
Quick question Shawn: You're well known, and active at shows, classes, you were recently featured in a local paper. Being as your walking point so to speak, have you had contact with wildlife agencies, and whats their take on LRH?

 

[jmden]

I'm reminded of the phrase, "The corollary of freedom is individual responsibility."