Long Range Hunting-Video (Shawn Carlock, Defensive Edge)

[royinidaho]

Alright guys, thanks for ignoring me; I guess it was stupid what I asked.

Nah, yur not stupid. At least I haven't heard any rumors to that affect.


I'm going to watch it on a super big screen. Maybe I'll notice some things then.

One of my problems, when glassing and watching videos, is that I focus way too much on what I expect to see, or what is being pointed out, as in the brake, and don't notice things that I don't expect.

I guess this is to say if I'm glassing for a body part of an elk, an elephant could walk through the field of view and I wouldn't even notice it.

One thing I noticed that I am pretty good at is time the impact. I was able to press stop to see initial impact on all but one of the shots. However, I got so big headed I wasn't able to repeat it to that degree of success again.

 

[Eaglet]

Roy,

I feel much better now! Thanks buddy!!!

 

[Willys46]

Thanks

Shawn,
Thanks for such a quick turn around! I watched as soon as I got home. Learned alot and now have more stuff I need to get. My wife hates you now.

Eaglet-
I saw the same thing. I could not tell if it was a tick or a little spider!

Willys46

 

[Shawn Carlock]

"My wife hates you now". I get that alot.

 

[30-338]

What am I missing here???

Shawn...I have been puzzling over this cos. X dope issue as an alternate to cos. x distance and I am stumped. I have to be missing something here! Here is my problem...You state that there are 3 alternatives to figure the correct distance for angle shooting. We know the flat line ( base of the right triangle ) formula. And no doubt the Exbal software is most exact, but I cannot make this 3rd alternative work. I watched the video several more times to see if I was misunderstanding what you meant by applying the cosine to the "dope". And I think you are saying that you multiply the cosine with the uncorrected MOA figure off your chart at lasered distance to get the corrected MOA. In the video you use a 45 degree angle and a cosine of .71 and a distanceof 600 yards and you say that even at this range you get a discrepancy of nearly 2 MOA...I tried doing some calcs here using Sierra software. I used an angle of 60 degrees at a distance of 1000 yards and a 300 SMK @ 2800 FPS. I chose the cosine based on the 60 degrees for the sake of simplicity ...a cosine of .5...So here is what I get
1)(Cosine x distance) .5 x 1000yds = 500 yds. or a drop of 8.8 MOA(100 yd zero) versus
2)(Cosine x dope) .5 x 25.2 MOA (the drop @ 1000yds in MOA) =12.6 MOA

That is quite a difference i.e. 3.8 MOA @ 1000yards or 39.78 inches
And it just gets worse the farther out you go...Here is what I think is happening...If we multiply the cos. x dope vs. the cos. x yards we are multiplying along 2 different scales...the yardage is arithmetic and the dope is hyperbolic ( or not a true parabola....I "think" this is the correct term...not sure though...) because it reflects the increasing curve of the bullet flight as it slows...So the farther out you go, the greater will be the discrepancy between the two methods....What am I doing wrong here? I am not the best math person so I am open to correction as I often make mistakes...but I need your input as to whether I am interpretting your "cos.x dope" formula correctly or whether I have miscalculated something...It appears though , that the cos. x dope method is of limited use and at fairly close ranges.............Thanks for your video. I am getting a lot out of it.....please advise as to the cos. x dope issue...Respectfully 30-338

 

[Eaglet]

30-338,

This may help: Quote from snipertool.com

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How does it work? One of three ways, but simple..[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]a. The most accurate method is to input the cosine number into your ballistic software; i.e. Exbal Ballistic Targeting Software or Field Firing Solutions, that runs on either your home PC, Pocket PC or Palm Pilot. This is because the software takes into account the trigonomics of the fact that the bullet will still travel the full distance to target, and maintain a similar time of flight. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]b. Method #2, is to multiply the cosine number to your MILRAD or MOA hold for your distance to target as indicated on your data card. For example, if your moa hold for 600 yards is 11 moa, and .87 is indicated by the ACI, you would then multiply .87 X 11moa, and obtain a corrected for gravity distance of 9.57 moa. This is fairly accurate, (Caliber Specific) although not as accurate as utilizing ballistic software. This is called the "Improved Rifleman Method."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]c. Method #3, is to multiply the cosine number to your sloped distance. This will deliver the flat line distance to target, or what we call the bottom leg of the triangle.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you experiment with your ballistic software, you will find that there can be as much as eight (8) MOA difference between method #1 and method #3. Method #1 is the most accurate & preferred method.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now, adjust the sight elevation knob (come-ups) on your scope, for the "corrected range".[/FONT]​

 

[VSSF]

Shawn, I'm gonna call you in the AM to order mine.Can't wait.

 

[Shawn Carlock]

30-338

Your on the right track. cos x dope for uncorrected distance has less margin of error than the cos x distance then getting the dope for corrected distance. Neither one is correct, they are better than nothing and either will work if the distance is a. close or b. a slight angle however after much field testing with multiple rifle the Exbal program wins hands down with cos x dope for uncorrected distance running a distant second. My whole point the up/downhill corrections was to carry a drop sheet generated by an accurate ballistics program because applying the cosine is not as accurate for long distances and / or steep angles. The NF Exbal program takes into account several factors to get the right dope and direct application of cos. does not, like the time of flight staying the same despite the gravity distance changing, angle of departure blah, blah, blah.
So at big distance application of cos just is not accurate enough for me. Sorry if that did not come across clear enough. If you have any other questions drop me a line.

 

[30-338]

Thanks Shawn!!

30-338

Your on the right track. cos x dope for uncorrected distance has less margin of error than the cos x distance then getting the dope for corrected distance. Neither one is correct, they are better than nothing and either will work if the distance is a. close or b. a slight angle however after much field testing with multiple rifle the Exbal program wins hands down with cos x dope for uncorrected distance running a distant second. My whole point the up/downhill corrections was to carry a drop sheet generated by an accurate ballistics program because applying the cosine is not as accurate for long distances and / or steep angles. The NF Exbal program takes into account several factors to get the right dope and direct application of cos. does not, like the time of flight staying the same despite the gravity distance changing, angle of departure blah, blah, blah.
So at big distance application of cos just is not accurate enough for me. Sorry if that did not come across clear enough. If you have any other questions drop me a line.

I appreciate your time and knowledge. I had no idea that my previous method of using the triangle was so bad..Anyway I will drop you a line and if you have time I hope you will consider my issues further Thanks...Love the video!!!! 30-338
Man, I really need to buy the Exbal software!!!

 

[Big Sky]

I sent my order off a day or two ago. With Kirby endorsing it and Shawn making the video I figured I couldn't lose. Judging by all the positive feedback on this thread it appears I'm right. Can't wait to get it!

 

[Strick9]

Order in via email....Kind Regards..David

 

[7mmSendaro]

Check is in the mail, can't wait to get it!

Brian

 

[VSSF]

Got it!!

Shawn, Great Video! I've only got one problem,gonna cost me more money for some more X-Tras! Many Thanks, Scott

 

[magicofmt]

Yep, checks in the mail! Can't wait!

Come on out to MT and film my 1500 yd antelope shot this fall with my 338 AM.

Thanks!