Long range elk "mistake"

[rscott5028]

Buffalobob wasn't berating Rich IMO. He was simply making a valid point that there is a difference between facts and beliefs or assumptions.

We don't know what the bullet did because we don't have the bullet or the elk. Had any of us been there spotting, we still wouldn't know for sure unless we recovered the elk.

We do know that he was hit because there was blood. We could make inferences about lungs etc depending on the color of the blood, froth, etc.

Anything more than that is an assumption or a SWAG at best.

As for the guys on TV.... most aren't that good and they do lots of editing.

-- richard

 

[HAMMERHAND]

You are spot on! Anybody who says otherwise has never recovered one the next day. I have seen animals here in Id. that were recovered the same evening, gutted, and not gotten off the ground . (If you do not split the hide down the back off the neck to the shoulders, the elk will sour there EVERY time even in freezing temperatures by the next morning) The cases you mentioned ARE NOT extenuating circumstances! When I first started hunting here in Id. after moving here from Mi. some 36 years ago, I made that mistake myself and have seen several other cases of it since. You can get away with it on a deer in cold weather, but not an elk!

Rich, we don't even mess around anymore with the heat. We get the skin off of everything immediately. I don't gut any animal anymore. We external-quarter every animal we get (antelope to elk). I can external quarter an animal faster than I can gut and quarter the same animal with no need to touch a bacteria-laden gut and transfer it to the meat. I believe that leaving the hide on animals that have been rutting, or approaching the rut imparts a crappy flavor to the meat, and there is no way it can be good for the meat in any weather. I carry those insemination sleeves that dairymen use, I wear those while I'm quartering out the animal to keep my hands clean and warm, and at shoulder length, the loins and back-straps fit perfectly inside them to keep them clean for the pack-out.

Now a word on the "pro's" on TV. Some of these guys are spoon-fed premium properties, and they have the ability of editing out the "oopses". Since humans are not machines, every human is prone to a mistake, and you better believe those guys have had their share of mistakes that never made it to camera. If they did, then they would lose some credibility in their field. Also I've known more than a few "outdoor TV" guys in my time, and all of them are willing to push the envelope in some regard to capture the best footage, many times at the expense of common sense.

 

[Buffalobob]

He didn't state it as a fact.

With all sincerity, I appreciate your making that post because I hold my honesty and truthfulness very dear and to deliberately mis-characterize what another person has posted is a dishonest act. For that and that alone I apologize. I should have gone back and re-read his original post before typing my own

As far as berating him, he deserves it, but not for losing the animal because I have done that myself.

 

[elkaholic]

Rich, we don't even mess around anymore with the heat. We get the skin off of everything immediately. I don't gut any animal anymore. We external-quarter every animal we get (antelope to elk). I can external quarter an animal faster than I can gut and quarter the same animal with no need to touch a bacteria-laden gut and transfer it to the meat. I believe that leaving the hide on animals that have been rutting, or approaching the rut imparts a crappy flavor to the meat, and there is no way it can be good for the meat in any weather. I carry those insemination sleeves that dairymen use, I wear those while I'm quartering out the animal to keep my hands clean and warm, and at shoulder length, the loins and back-straps fit perfectly inside them to keep them clean for the pack-out.

Now a word on the "pro's" on TV. Some of these guys are spoon-fed premium properties, and they have the ability of editing out the "oopses". Since humans are not machines, every human is prone to a mistake, and you better believe those guys have had their share of mistakes that never made it to camera. If they did, then they would lose some credibility in their field. Also I've known more than a few "outdoor TV" guys in my time, and all of them are willing to push the envelope in some regard to capture the best footage, many times at the expense of common sense.

If I can't get the meat skinned the same evening, I always try to get the carcass elevated with some limbs etc. as well as split the hide from the brisket clear up the neck and then down the back of the neck past the shoulders. The hide and fur is the heaviest there and insulates the most. I truly have seen them sour there overnight, more than once, even after being gutted and elevated. I've seen the rear portions actually frozen and the shoulder area steaming when the hide was removed....Rich

 

[Pdvdh]

Buffalobob wasn't berating Rich IMO. He was simply making a valid point that there is a difference between facts and beliefs or assumptions.
-- richard

Sorry to say, Buffalobob has corrected your opinion, even after having an abundance of time to consider the matter.

As far as berating him, he deserves it, but not for losing the animal because I have done that myself.

Quite the profound judgment Buffalobob.

Definition of BERATE, transitive verb: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length.

Synonyms for BERATE: baste, bawl out, scold, call down, castigate, chastise, chew out, dress down, flay, hammer, jaw, keelhaul, lambaste (or lambast), lecture, rag, rail (at or against), rant (at), rate, ream (out), rebuke, reprimand, reproach, score, tongue-lash, upbraid

 

[rscott5028]

Sorry to say, Buffalobob has corrected your opinion, even after having an abundance of time to consider the matter.



Quite the profound judgment Buffalobob.

Definition of BERATE, transitive verb: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length.

Synonyms for BERATE: baste, bawl out, scold, call down, castigate, chastise, chew out, dress down, flay, hammer, jaw, keelhaul, lambaste (or lambast), lecture, rag, rail (at or against), rant (at), rate, ream (out), rebuke, reprimand, reproach, score, tongue-lash, upbraid

Are you really sorry? Probably not IMO.

Then again, my opinion's been wrong before.

-- richard

 

[elkaholic]

With all sincerity, I appreciate your making that post because I hold my honesty and truthfulness very dear and to deliberately mis-characterize what another person has posted is a dishonest act. For that and that alone I apologize. I should have gone back and re-read his original post before typing my own

As far as berating him, he deserves it, but not for losing the animal because I have done that myself.

Bob.....I don't have a problem with accepting your criticizm for taking a shot that I admitted was wrong! What ruffled my feathers was misquoting what I said which has now been cleared up so what say we bury the hatchet.......Rich

 

[Buffalobob]

so what say we bury the hatchet.

That's fine. I doubt either one of us is going to change our mind on what we believe about bullet performance.

 

[MEV]

Elkaholic, you will get no criticism from me. No matter how we all try, sometimes unexpected bad things happen. It is how we all learn and teach others so the mistakes can be avoided in the future. MEV

 

[sp6x6]

Sorry to here the bad luck. About 20 yrs ago I shot a nice 6 pt across a finger w/ my 7 mag,saw the hit .Young and full of juice I went over and caught bull in timber and wasnt fast enough on follow up. I was in knee deep snow, no problem, run him down. Well I chased him to south slope an no snow and lost him. Lots of lessons learned, and I was pushing my 7mm to limit. Went 338 from there on out. Taken 1/2 my 30 + ELK W/BOW.Few years back I shot a bull @ 9 yrdsand as he ran out I cow called and hit him again in "pocket "@ 40 yrd.Some cows spooked above me and I THOuGHT i herd bull go down. Temps where runnig in mid 80's. Looked that eve and recovered next mornig, near creek bottom, not one ounce of meat lost, bone sour zero,?? go figure??And I've seen guys loose meat just sittng in truck bed unskinned.

 

[etisll40]

Has anyone on here taken a head shot on an Elk with a particular bullet? With success? At what range and bullet? You can email me if you prefer.

 

[HARPERC]

Has anyone on here taken a head shot on an Elk with a particular bullet? With success? At what range and bullet? You can email me if you prefer.

Coastal Roosevelt, 3 point bull, 375 H&H, 350 grain Barnes Original, 2425 fps, 20 yards more or less, results.....priceless! Sorry, that's probably not what you were looking for, but I couldn't resist.

 

[minute of elk]

Has anyone on here taken a head shot on an Elk with a particular bullet? With success? At what range and bullet? You can email me if you prefer.

160 accubond, 7wsm, 35 yards (give or take), and quite effective. (what can i say? i've been an obsessive archery hunter for the last 20 years!)

 

[Timber338]

Elkaholic, Thanks for sharing your lessons so we all can learn.

Lots of people have commented on the specific details of your hunt, but to me the big picture here is we are all hunters, and are never guaranteed success...

Regardless of the specifics, as long as we are putting forward our best effort, making a mistake is very valuable as long as we learn from it.

I had a similar result as you with a 60 yards shot on a bull a few years ago... And I felt horrible for a few weeks. Until I realized that if I could not accept a lost animal, then I should not be hunting... It's just an unfortunate reality that will happen to all of us if we hunt long enough.