Long Range Dangerous Game?

[Freakshow]

ceg1963
You do something eveyday that most people would say "Hell No" to,and that is being a carrier Spec-Ops soldier. Some of the other guys on this site shoot Black Bear at long range, and I haven't heard anything about ethics on that subject. There were two black bears killed in my home state of Arkansas that went over 550lb's last fall. If I get one in my sights at 1000 yards, he is going down! When out for bears I believe that one should plan for a worst case senario and I believe my new 338Edge from Kirby should do the trick.
God Bless America! RLTW!

 

[Guest]

CEG, I also want to thank you for your service to our country. I always support our troops who risk their lives for our freedom.
I personally would not shoot a grizz past 200 yards.
But, I do not have the skills that you have. I will say after reading this that you are to be commended for taking the time to research and ask opinions before just going afield and blasting away. I'm sure that whatever decision you make and whatever range you impose as your limit will be carefully and dilligently planned. The main concern that I got from this thread was the issue of the wounded bear becoming a danger to someone else not involved in the hunt.

Chris, I do have to disagree with you concerning black bears eating you tiwce as fast???
I live in black bear country and come across them while bowhunting deer. You just move a little bit and they run for the hills. The dangerous black bears are the one's that don't run. I call these the yogi and boo-boo bears because a-holes feed them and they become desensitized to humans. They have to be put down as a result.
It's funny in a way since New Jersey had the bear hunt 2 years ago and had the anti-hunters protesting like mad. 300+ bears were killed that year in the first and only bear hunt in over 20 or 30 years. So if you do the math I'm sure that more bear had to be destroyed because these same idiots fed them and caused them to become nuisance bears.

 

[budlight]

Here is the guys I was talking about from the Safari internation meet.

http://www.nitroexpress.tv/

 

[Guest]

I watched the video. What a deushbag!
Its stuff like this that gives hunters a bad name.
It's macho slaughter not hunting. I'd like to see him try that with a grizz.

Better yet, I'd like to see him bowhunt whitetail. Something where he needs skill to get close to the game or call in a spring gobbler. Not just go to africa where there is more game than you know what to do with.

Hunting is about getting touch with the outdoors. Its not alligator wrestling. It should be peacful and rewarding. Sure you have the adrenalin factor where you see the game, but c'mon this is way over the top.

In his defense, however, I will give him credit for his balls! Which he may not have for long!

This is like the hunting version of the "girls gone wild" videos.

 

[STL_Shooter]

Let's consider a hypothetical situation. A long-range hunter who's verrry picky about the shot he will take. Everything must be right...

If he were able, shooting prone, from a bipod, with a rear bean bag, to put 3 shots in a 6" circle at 1200 yards, and 5 shots into 3" at 600 yards, each of those shots having a muzzle energy of around 12000 foot pounds and a BC of around 1.0 - don't you think that individual has at least as good a chance, if not better, than the average grizzly hunter with a lightweight .338 to kill a bear cleanly?

He's not being charged at 50 yards - he's calmly watching his target from, oh, let's say 600-800 yards, and only shoots when everything's right...

Of course, we're just speaking hypothetically here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ceg1963]

Exactly!

 

[long action]

Ceg1963. Having served as a designated marksman-counter sniper from 1966-68. This was before sniper had a MOS, and there were any schools for sniper training. I have a modicum of a idea of you're personality. I wish the others here could understand that you are going to do what you said you are going to do no matter what. You are asking for help in accomplishing you're coal. You have resolved the ethics issue with yourself. There is no further need to discuss that subject.

Unfortunately I have no help to offer. Since I must hunt from a custom designed off road wheel chair now. I do videos for Lohman game calls from this chair.I am very interested in the guides that are working on bear hunts for the handicapped. I was offered a free Grisly hunt. If I would shoot it from my wheel chair with a bow. I accepted the hunt, But unfortunately we could not get the 240 pound chair into the hunting territory.

I think you know how I feel about you're service to freedom. I am going to make several calls to some great gunsmiths. Hopefully they will have impute on rifle design to help you achieve you're coal.

Ronnie Robison-Lohman Gold Staff.

"This we will defend"

 

[Fotis]

Sorry Fellas I just do not beleive it is ethical to shoot at brown bears at 750 yards.

BTW...You're welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[bucknutz]

well put. if i paid that much money,and the only shot that presented itself was a "long shot"and i had the ability,and confidence,with the gun you are looking for now.to take the shot.i would want to.but i would not purposely look for that situation. i think you're definately on the right track by asking. good luck

 

[ceg1963]

Long_Action,

Godbless you in all you endeavor to do. Thanks!

Hell, if you ain't found nobody to help you into the bush by the time I am qualified to hunt in Alaska, I'll carry you on my back myself!

No, thank you for your dedicated service... you did it during the hard years in this country. I on the other hand, still had snot on my upper lip during that period of my life. Friend, you led the way then, and guys like you made it easy for guys like me to follow suit.

Your also right about my personality, once I close the loop on the proper equipment, the fat lady will have to sing! Pity the large bruin that lingers too long on the flats, don't ever pity me.

You do make a great point. IMHO, personality and mental stamina make more of an impact in the long game than does our specialized equipment.

My new (traded like new) M700, .375 Remington Ultra Magnum will arrive Monday. I am excited just thinking of beating it into submission! With a premium 270 grain bullet, travelling at 3100 FPS, it should deliver over 2200 foot pounds of killing energy out to a clean 500 yards.

Later during a rebuild... I intend on stretching the barrel a couple of inches... openning the bolt face and receiver up the rquired amount... and creating one hell-of-a bad to the bone .378 Weatherby. For longer ranges, I like the 375 caliber.

That is unless I can be talking into the Cheytec on a custom action. By the way, one of my former Special Forces Instructors, Retired SF Dean Michaelis, piloted the development of that weapon system.

Anymore input will be greatly appreciated.

CG RLTW

 

[longtooth]

I hope you were being sarcastic with your response.
The great thing about hypothetical situations is you don't have to put in real world things like tree branches, wind, the animal making a sudden movement because its startled by another animal or smell, the constant biting of mosquito's as you try to find a solid position in brush and brambles to take your shot.

I'm not putting your ability down you may be able to shot these ranges, but hunting these very dangerous animals at extreme range is something you should reflect about with all do care. The consequences of failure could not only serious for you but for others who may come to that area days, weeks, or months later.
I can not stress to you how violent and unpredictable these animals can be without provocation let alone with a bullet in there ***.

In 1983 I was confronted by a large grizzly while fishing on the kings river in Alaska I had seen him about 300 yd away, He was acting strangely moving slowly and with what I thought were uncoordinated movements, as soon as he got my scent he started toward me on the run. I remember thinking he had a fish in his mouth, as he hit 100yds. my ever present 12 ga. sawed off came of my back and into position by then he was only 10yds. away and I fired hitting him in the hump breaking his spine in half, he literally fell at my feet. I am not ashamed to say I was a little unnerved by the events. My fishing partner helped me roll the beast over and there we found the reason for his unprovoked attack, what I had thought was a fish in his mouth was his lower jaw hanging by a small piece of skin, he had been shot in the face by an unknown hunter and had escaped. I am not saying he was shot at long range but more then likely at close range and for some reason the shot didn't go or react as planed, rather mechanical error or hunter error the results were the same, ****ed off bear.

Only you will make the decision on rather or not to take the shot but reflect on it with care. And use the biggest gun you can handle.

 

[ceg1963]

Longtooth, You are absolutely right in your position on this discussion. Some amateur with lots of money to burn, probably shot it at under 200 yards, and still missed.

I agree, you should never pull the trigger unless you can handle the situation/consequences. I can not imagine taking a longish shot at such a magestic animal unless the conditions are absolutely just right. I mean a zero wind value, a confirmed known range to the bear, the bear is calm and still, enough time before dark to handle the carcass once its down, and I am trained and equipped with enough gun to body slam his ***.

Having said that, just for reference and not bragging, I can put 5 shots, fired in rapid fire succesion, into a 2 inch group at 600 yards. Anytime, anywhere, under most favorable conditions. That from a minimally modified "factory stock" Remington Sendero in .300 Win Mag. Many here can do even better than that at 600 I am sure. Hell, so can I with a more specialized equipment set-up.

I think most would agree, especially bear guides, that most of the people hunting the big bears today can't even do that at 100 yards under field conditions, let alone 600 yards. But they still take the shots afforded them out to 200 yards or so and some even longer, and not many here would think them unethical. Your bear is probably a victim of that technique.

No, a hunter that is properly equipped and extensively trained can execute bear at reasonable ranges. IMHO Properly equipped being defined as a man armed with a rifle that is capable of delivering sub-MOA performance all of the time, toting 2000 FPs or more of lethal energy.

Rest assured, if and when I break the round, I will not wound one... if that is your concern.

CG

 

[STL_Shooter]

No sarcasm here... Oh, all right - there's some... But only the part about it being hypothetical!

The 750 AMax is a wonder to behold. I can't imagine an animal on the earth that would shrug off a shoulder or boiler room hit with one of these... And like I said, the shooter I'm talking about simply wouldn't take a shot with a tree branch in the way or the other problems you mention.

Seriously, ceg, you might consider a .50 for your project. Let me know if you want more details...

 

[jwp475]

I believe that a long range bear is doable.The hunter has the final say on whether to shoot or not to shoot.If conditions are not perfect the hunter can simple pass on the shot and never disturb the bear.Many shots are taken at relitively short range under adverse conditions [ thick brush,etc]and no one seems to care.I have taken Alaskan grizzley with a 5 shot revolver and 5 1/2" barrel with no problems,yet many would find this fool hardy.Everything depends on the indvidual and the conditions.There are times that I find a revolver a better choice for me than a rifle.I would hunt in the same woods with you anytime and not worry! The only difference between your choice of calibers and mine is I would have opted for the big 338 bore diameter as I believe there is a better selection of high b.c. bullets in this caliber for long range hunting.
I think that you guy's should be given medals just for qualifing to do your line of work.I would say good luck but I believe that with your training and continued practice that you will take luck out of the equation