**** lodge/masons oaths ****

[bigbuck]

I have a real good book that takes different versions of the bible and shows were they error it compares the NKJV to a KJV and other revised versions, if anyone is interested pm me and I can copy some of the info I may even have an extra if so I would send it to you free of charge. or I could just post it

Bigbuck

 

[jmden]

Amen to that, 308.

 

[308 nate]

My dad is well versed in Hebrew and Greek and has several Hebrew bibles for cross reference. Translating is a difficult job as words change meaning and lose importance or gain importance in meaning. I think knowledge is good, just beware that knowledge can puff up, but love builds up. I believe the KJV is a very accurate translation as well as some others. .
A difficult part in translating from language to language is there are different amounts of letters in different alphabets, so in translating from one language to another you will find some slight differences. I do feel accuracy is important, but I do not feel everyone should have to learn Hebrew and Greek to become a Christan as by taking it to KJV you may as well take it back to Hebrew and Greek
I do have a problem of translations being made from other translations and on and on or by one man as this can have a bad effect. I feel they should be made by a large group of knowledgeable scholars devoted to extreme accuracy I have been around a few KJV only people and feel some have a stronger worship for KJV than they do for God. Even the KJV is very easy to misinterpret. There are many things in the bible that can only be understood through the holy spirit's working in our spirit. If you feel the KJV is the only inspired word of God, this is where we will strongly differ.

But, thanks for the discussion.

308nate

 

[jmden]

My dad is well versed in Hebrew and Greek and has several Hebrew bibles for cross reference. Translating is a difficult job as words change meaning and lose importance or gain importance in meaning. I think knowledge is good, just beware that knowledge can puff up, but love builds up. I believe the KJV is a very accurate translation as well as some others. .
A difficult part in translating from language to language is there are different amounts of letters in different alphabets, so in translating from one language to another you will find some slight differences. I do feel accuracy is important, but I do not feel everyone should have to learn Hebrew and Greek to become a Christan as by taking it to KJV you may as well take it back to Hebrew and Greek
I do have a problem of translations being made from other translations and on and on as this can have a bad effect. I have been around a few KJV only people and feel some have a stronger worship for KJV than they do for God. Even the KJV is very easy to misinterpret. There are many things in the bible that can only be understood through the holy spirit's working in our spirit. If you feel the KJV is the only inspired word of God, this is where we will strongly differ.

But, thanks for the discussion.

308nate

Well said, again.

We must be careful to clearly understand the philosophy of those behind the translation and the reason they are taking on the work of a translation as some part of this philosphy will come through whether the philosophy is to be as literally accurate to the original Hebrew and Greek or to make it more understandable to our current language set, or to make it fit with the current thinking of the modern culture, etc. The latter being a very dangerous thing.

There is a great deal of evidence to suggest that current versions like the English Standard Version (ESV) or New International Version (NIV) are more accurate that some older versions (the ESV particularly putting emphasis on more exact translation from the original) such as the KJV only due to the fact that the current body of research and evidence, properly handled, is much greater and growing and from a wider number of carefully compared manuscripts with a greater degree of understanding than when the KJV was translated. So, I do not believe that, too much effort or stock on the whole, should be put into the KJV vs. other versions argument. Others will disagree, but I do not believe it should be a central tenent of Christian apologetics--defense of the faith.

I've been through these arguments and books on the subjedt before and have seen my father deal with these issues in his churches over the years. It's a interesting discussion, but no hill to die on.

Regardless, these versions mentioned are 99.9% in agreement and and vary only in very minor areas of language translation, the central tenets of belief being 100% aligned.

 

[bigbuck]

308 nate I am KJV only and we do differ.
To say that we have the ability to correct the bible is to say that the bible know longer has the ability to correct us.

let me ask you and jmason a question do you believe in eternal life? Once saved always saved? If so how can you believe God has the ability to translate your soul into heaven but you feel the KJV needs to be translated into the bible that you carry?Does he not have the power to translate his word. If you don't have a KJV you don't have a bible!

Bigbuck

 

[jmden]

308 nate I am KJV only and we do differ.
To say that we have the ability to correct the bible is to say that the bible know longer has the ability to correct us.

let me ask you and jmason a question do you believe in eternal life? Once saved always saved? If so how can you believe God has the ability to translate your soul into heaven but you feel the KJV needs to be translated into the bible that you carry?Does he not have the power to translate his word. If you don't have a KJV you don't have a bible!

Bigbuck

This is not a worthwhile discussion to have in this location, bigbuck. At this point and in this place it only detracts from what may be worthwhile and helpful discussion otherwise.

I haven't seen any Bible believing Christian here say that we have the ability to 'corrrect' the Bible and certainly I haven't seen anyone say in this thread that claims to be a Christian say that the Bible no longer has the ability to correct us. In general, new translations have the responsibility of making a translation as accurate as possible and as understandable as possible given the change of language over the years.

Some are translated to English from a comparison of the oldest accurate manuscripts to be literally accurate...EXACTLY from the original Hebrew or Greek and is typically used for research purposes by those in the ministry, etc. This version would be more accurate to the orginal text than the KJV is, believe me. Would you say that the KJV is somehow 'better' than one translated as exactly as possible from the oldest known accurate manuscripts? More of which are available for comparison now than when the KJV was translated? This kind of version is very difficult to understand for the everday person that speaks English and so may in some passages of scripture not be a good general reading/understanding translation, due to some things just naturally being lost in translation. So, we have to be very careful and understanding of why a particular version was translated in the first place. Other versions seek to translate such that they are accurate to the orginal text, but take into account the change in the English language over the years to make the text more easily understood. The KJV was likely that Bible at that time. Nothing more.

Like I said, be very aware of the philosophy behind the translation to find out if it is true to oldest known manuscripts and using the best known information for it's translation.

It is important to test and understand these issues, but this particular issue is for another time and place, I believe.

 

[308 nate]

308 nate I am KJV only and we do differ.
To say that we have the ability to correct the bible is to say that the bible know longer has the ability to correct us.

let me ask you and jmason a question do you believe in eternal life? Once saved always saved? If so how can you believe God has the ability to translate your soul into heaven but you feel the KJV needs to be translated into the bible that you carry?Does he not have the power to translate his word. If you don't have a KJV you don't have a bible!

Bigbuck

Is not the KJV translated from Greek,Hebrew and Aramaic scrolls? What sets KJV translation apart from say, NIV? The NIV as well as some others were not translated from the KJV, but from using the Greek and Hebrew text. If you would like to continue this discussion by e-mail I would be happy, But will probably not post here anymore as I am not fond of promoting arguments. If you got out of what I said that I was trying to correct the bible this in NOT what I was trying to do by any means. As far as your other questions, I could be wrong, but I feel you are not interested in good conversation, but are interested in arguments and trapping.
My encouragement would be whatever things are good, whatever things are uplifting and true..think on these things. I am for promoting what is good and builds up others...the media is good at promoting the other.............If anyone is really concerned about what I believe....Other than I believe the bible to be true. they must first get to know me. I do believe my interpretations are prone to errors
Therefore my faith is not in myself nor translations, but the inspiration of God. The devil will use whatever tools he can to pick apart God's followers..even as little of things as "the, thy and thou" if you are wondering we do have several translations to the English language of the bible in our house (KJV included) and I am thankful for the freedom to own and posses a bible. As many in our history and current day did and do not have that freedom. This will probably be my last post on this thread as I do not see it being profitable anylonger, but will be happy to discuss privately any concerns or questions. I am by no means an authority, but love to converse with those that do not feel "they know it all and are without error"




308nate

 

[ejboy]

To all,
There has been much said,on this thread about Mason,Relgion, and what this one believes or that one believes. The KJV was a translationthat came about in 1611. The purpose was for a greater understanding of God's word to man. At that time there were no really good bibles as best as my memory serves me. I grew up reading the KJV of the Bible, but in the last 40 to 50 years there have been other translation printed from the orginal manuscripts as was the KJV. I use and have read several of them. I still lean to the KJV, but use some of the others as referance to get a better undestanding of what God is saying to me. I firmly believe that Jesus is the way ,the truth, and the life. I have been washed in the BLOOD! Jesus said you must be born again,and I am.
I'm also a Master Mason as I stated earlier in this thread. I became a Mason after I became a Christian, because All around me were many men whom I knew to be good men. Leaders of the community and Pillars in the buisness world in the Small East Texas Town I grew up in. At church I attened most of the Deacons were Master Masons. I have Known Lots of preachers that were Master Masons. In Fact my Pastor now is a Master mason.
We are a society of friends and breathern among whom no contention should ever exist, but that noble contention or rather immunlation of whom can best work and best agree.
EJBoy

 

[jmden]

Must every Freemason candidate affirm a belief in a Supreme Being? Masons may be Unitarian, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, etc. Men from these faiths do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Aren't Masons continually reminded by wearing of the 'Lambskin' that purity of life and conduct are necessary to gaining admission to the 'Celestial Lodge' above from where the 'Supreme Architect' lives and rules? Are then Mason Unitarians, Muslims and Hindus falsely "reminded of that purity of life and conduct so essential to gaining admission into the 'Celestial Lodge' above."

Does Freemasonry explicitly teach that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, truth and life as is so clearly taught and said by Jesus himself in John 14:6 among other passages? If so, there should be no spiritual brotherhood allowed with false religions.

Where, is the Mason's ultimate allegiance? Is it to Christ and His church or to a human invented organization? Does/Should a true follower of Christ be part of an organization that promotes spiritual brotherhood with Hindus, Muslims, etc?

I can't help but be reminded to some degree of the Pharisees of the New Testament when I think of the Masons and their human made rites and rituals, etc. The Pharisees had created volumes of documents regarding things that could and could not be done and associated rituals and rites, adding greatly to the written word of God. What was Jesus' take on the Pharisees? Human rites and rituals that add to the Word of God are a very dangerous thing. Jesus clearly did not appreciate human made rites and rituals that in any way would keep people from knowing and understanding His true love, as they often do. As Christians, we need to make sure we are worshipping God to His glory and not getting falsely trapped in any inapproprate rites and rituals that in any way add to the Bible as is so clearly taught therein.

 

[Chas1]

When I die I know where I'm going. The Grand High Exalted Mr. Gruebber told me I'd be buried in Bismark, North Dakota In the National Racoon Cemetary right next to fellow Racoon Lodge brothers Ralph Gramden and Ed Norton

Do any of you shoot guns or LRH? If so what kind?

 

[bigbuck]

jmden, Good question They will allow any unitarian, muslim, hindus, jews, buddhist join their lodge basically they will hold hands with any faith that can keep and believe in their oath.

Ask them if they are allowed to say Christ in their meetings or if it is omitted from the scripture???

Back to my KJV Bible here is some scripture why I believe that the KJV is inspired preserved word of God for the english speaking people.

Psa. 12:6-7
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth , purified seven times. thou shalt keep them, O Lord thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The King James Bible is supposedly written in an "old and archaic language" that people today have trouble understanding, but please notice how so many of our modern sayings come from between it's covers. hundreds could be presented, but I'll limit to a few because it takes me forever to type

Genesis Ch 43:34 mess (of food)
Exodus 28:42 britches
Numbers 21:5 light bread
Deuteronomy 32:10 apple of his eye
2 samuel 19:18 ferry boat
14:12 i'll show him a thing or two

For those that think they need something other than a KJV
Since you do not profess to have a perfect Bible, why do you refer to it as "God's word"?
Isn't it true that when you use the term "Greek text" you are being deceitful and lying, since there are MANY Greek TEXTS (plural), rather than just one?

I have posted over and over the kind of Bible I use why haven't you ???

Bigbuck

 

[bigbuck]

When I die I know where I'm going. The Grand High Exalted Mr. Gruebber told me I'd be buried in Bismark, North Dakota In the National Racoon Cemetary right next to fellow Racoon Lodge brothers Ralph Gramden and Ed Norton

Do any of you shoot guns or LRH? If so what kind?

My Bible tells me that all Christians when they die will be absent from the body is to present with the Lord

 

[bigbuck]

This is just one reason why that these different versions are perverted and wicked.
The scripture that comes first is the KJV after that it is the perversed versions.

LUKE 2:33
And JOSEPH and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. KJV

Here the new versions attack the Virgin Birth by telling us that Joseph was Christ's father:

NIV..... The childs father
NASB....... His father
NRSV..... the child's father
REB......The child"s father
NWT.... its father
NAB.....the child" father

Don't take my word for it friend get out your bible if you have these versions and see for yourself.

If Jesus was not Virgin born then were all in trouble but thanks be to God HE IS Virgin Born and my KJV says so and that settles it!!Let the word of God be true and every man a lier.
Bigbuck

 

[jmden]

jmden, Good question They will allow any unitarian, muslim, hindus, jews, buddhist join their lodge basically they will hold hands with any faith that can keep and believe in their oath.

Ask them if they are allowed to say Christ in their meetings or if it is omitted from the scripture???

Back to my KJV Bible here is some scripture why I believe that the KJV is inspired preserved word of God for the english speaking people.

Psa. 12:6-7
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth , purified seven times. thou shalt keep them, O Lord thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The King James Bible is supposedly written in an "old and archaic language" that people today have trouble understanding, but please notice how so many of our modern sayings come from between it's covers. hundreds could be presented, but I'll limit to a few because it takes me forever to type

Genesis Ch 43:34 mess (of food)
Exodus 28:42 britches
Numbers 21:5 light bread
Deuteronomy 32:10 apple of his eye
2 samuel 19:18 ferry boat
14:12 i'll show him a thing or two

For those that think they need something other than a KJV
Since you do not profess to have a perfect Bible, why do you refer to it as "God's word"?
Isn't it true that when you use the term "Greek text" you are being deceitful and lying, since there are MANY Greek TEXTS (plural), rather than just one?

I have posted over and over the kind of Bible I use why haven't you ???

Bigbuck

Bigbuck,

I can appreciate your continued desire to discuss these subjects, but I believe at this point and in this place that both the discussions regarding Masons and KJV issues are not appropriate. It is my belief that these issues should relegated to kind of 'in house' discussions and I don't want to partake in them anymore here. These are issues that, at this point, for the person who has not received Christ, are only going to confuse and potentially set off course--my guess is that would include most folks here, or anywhere in a public forum. You do not and should not want to be a part of such a thing.

Jon