Load Tuning By Jerry Teo

[cva54]

Yes I am measuring off the ogive. The way I sean it it is the best way. But when I load a round to .020 jump the cannelure seams to be hangging out a lot. long throat? No I have'nt done the math to find out max for the seatting depth for the bullet Hornady .308 #3033 150 gr BT/SP interlock.

 

[Whitesheep]

I managed to make it to the range a few times since my last post. I am not done yet, but here is what I have found out so far. With 168 Berger VLD hunting bullets I am consistently shooting better groups 0.130 off the lands. I was surprised this was so far back, but it is within the range Berger suggested would be best. Now for powder development. I still haven't gone back to the Sierras, but I will when I am done with the Bergers.

By the way, I tried a load right at the lands. The T/C closed with no problem, but I generated over pressure signs with the first shot so I stopped. This is with a load well below the maximum powder charge recommended by Berger. Interesting.

More to come....

 

[kyhareraiser]

i've been reloading and shooting for some time now but i have picked up at least two ideas...one is the flagging tape to see wind direction .i can use this deer hunting since i hunt a flat bottomland..now the second i don't catch..i've always heard people fireforming brass but since i shoot new factory and then use those pieces of brass they are fireormed for my rifle..but now how ,do you use corn meal in front of the powder..how do you get it to stay in the casing..tell me,i have sme new brass and would like to do this

 

[rdsii64]

I must have to only two rifles in the world that shoot bug holes with decent factory ammo.
I simply duplicated the factory recipe and the rifle shoots better than I can. If I find that the next rifle to take up residence in my safe isn't so lucky, your methods seem like they will help me find what works quickly so I can spend less time at the loading bench and more time behind the rifle.

 

[rem]

that is very helpful thanks for sharing.

 

[Shootin4fun]

By the way, I tried a load right at the lands. The T/C closed with no problem, but I generated over pressure signs with the first shot so I stopped. This is with a load well below the maximum powder charge recommended by Berger. Interesting.

And there you have it...bolt closed OK but over pressure signs in a mid range load.

I've only tried seating to touch the lands a few times and did not have postive experiences. First, if the seating is off by just a thou or 2, closing the bolt is difficult if not impossible; scary and a pain in the a. (I rarely bring my press to the range to correct seating ;-) and won't test cycle all rounds through the gun at home before going out.) Second, the pressure difference between rounds touching the lands, and those that may be .001 off the lands is nonlinear. Variations in pressure between lengths that are not touching the lands are somewhat predictable, but touching vs. not touching seems very touchy!

Good conversation here. My method has been the one where a nominal lenght is chosen, a .4gr increment range of weights loaded (5 or 10 ea. weight), and then shot as groups at 100, 200, and if it is a good load then 300 yards.

My problem is fliers. Sometimes I have them and sometimes I don't, and I can't figure out whether its me or an external factor. I try to keep everything very consistent through reloading all the way to letting the barrel cool between shots of 2. I have loads that I know are capable of landing 3 out of 5 shots overlapping each other but then the other 2 often might be .5 and even .9" away. ES is around 40 and SD is around 20. But at 200 yards it consistenly holds 1" - 1.5" 5 shot groups, and at 300 yards anywhere from .8" - 3" groups. So it makes me want to change some reloading variable, but I don't know which one. Does anyone "true" their brass to make sure it is completely concentric? Its the last reloading variable I can think of.

Other than that, maybe I should let someone else who I know is a good shooter have a crack at some groups with my best loads!

 

[Shootin4fun]

So, after all the discussion, it doesn't seem like there is 1 best way do go about finding the most accurate charge / OAL combination to achieve the best accuracy. Some start with 1 length and vary the charge, then go back and fine tune the length. Some start with 1 charge and vary the length, then go back and fine tune the charge. Whitesheep started to do an experiment, but was thrown off track when touching the lands produced the best group ever.

Then there is the OAC method, firing 1 round each charge level and again at each length at different targets, etc. as has been explained in other articles, vs. firing all 3 - 5 of a given load at 1 target, then the next load, etc.

I don't know what to think anymore, so I'll just pray for a windless day when I have free time to go to the range.

 

[Whitesheep]

I am glad to see this thread is still going. Hard to believe it has been almost a year since I posted. Since then I have given up on the Bergers and gone back to the SGK. They are much less expensive and much more consistent in length to ogive and weight. I have a load for my T/C PH in .280 REM with 160 SGK's that is a solid 1 MOA load for me off my sand bag rests. This is fine for me since I am a hunter first and a target shooter second (I don't carry the rests in the field).

As for which method is best, I have settled on the length first then powder weight second method and have found in some rifles that COL makes a much bigger difference in accuracy than powder weight. I have a .308 FNAR that is picky about length (likes 'em short like me), but really couldn't care about powder weight. Sure the POI moves, but the groups stay the same. This is for 0.5 gr increments over about a total of 2grs FWIW.

I still think small caliber rifle accuracy is a very complex system with multiple accuracy minimums. The trick is to find one that works for what you want it to do. Once I hit 1 MOA consistently, I am done and now practicing with that round. Could there be better ones a 0.005" COL or a 0.1 gr away? Maybe when I have more range time I will find them, but for now 1 MOA is good enough for me.

See ya in the forest, or maybe the desert depending on the time of year.

 

[Shootin4fun]

As for which method is best, I have settled on the length first then powder weight second method and have found in some rifles that COL makes a much bigger difference in accuracy than powder weight. I have a .308 FNAR that is picky about length (likes 'em short like me), but really couldn't care about powder weight. Sure the POI moves, but the groups stay the same. This is for 0.5 gr increments over about a total of 2grs FWIW.

I still think small caliber rifle accuracy is a very complex system with multiple accuracy minimums. The trick is to find one that works for what you want it to do. Once I hit 1 MOA consistently, I am done and now practicing with that round. Could there be better ones a 0.005" COL or a 0.1 gr away? Maybe when I have more range time I will find them, but for now 1 MOA is good enough for me.

QUOTE]

Interesting...you settled on length first, then charge level. Dan Newbury's OCW method talks about all this, and then he varies the length as the final touch. For review: (or just google optimum charge weight)
clik.to

I like the theory behind the OCW method because it basically determines the load that is most component-variance independent. But I have not tried it, so don't know if the fine tuning by length adjustment at the end of the process will result in the (practically speaking) tightest groups possible for that gun.

It sounds like we are all over the map in our techniques, falling into 2 or 3 obvious "camps". There are good arguments for each, and it doesn't seem like there is 1 best way to do it.

I will say that I tend to nitpick my loads ad infinitum and I often wonder if its me or the load that causes groups to open up to 1 MOA.

1 MOA accuracy is good enough to practice shooting skills at 100 - 200 yards, but not when the targets are out at 400+ yards. I have a semi auto that routinely returns 3 of 4 rounds in under .5" @100 but the flier is always about 1" - 1.5" away. This makes me think it is unsuitable for hunting shots past 300 yards. So now I have to buy a bolt action in that caliber (270) to experiement more!

 

[Whitesheep]

Bummer about having to buy a new gun Shootin4Fun. Enjoy.

As for the fliers. With my setup I can blame an imperfect rest. As long as I call them, it's alright. As for shooting 400+ yards, I need a really stable rest at that range. I am not sure the proverbial backpack is the answer here. Pods or sticks are a better idea, but keeping 1 MOA even then would be hard for me.

When preparing for an AK hunt several years ago, I practiced frequently out to 500 yards off of sticks sitting. I am confident I could have hit a sheep at 500 with that setup, but it would not have been in the heart as I would be aiming at center of mass at that range. As it was I took a Dall at 320 yards in the heart off those same sticks no problem. Regrettably, I don't have the time, will or $ to practice like I did for that hunt, so I keep it to 300 yards now. I did hit an Elk running at 250 yards a couple of seasons ago, but a Bull Elk is a big target. No, I didn't hit it in the heart, but it did go down and find its way to my freezer. Since that is my goal, 1 MOA was good enough.

 

[Shootin4fun]

I forgot, I promised someone that instead of buying a new 270, I will spend some time to develop a good load for a new 7mm RM Savage I recently bought. I've broken in the barrel with 40 or 50 factory rounds and have loaded a box of ascending charges. Seating was arbitrary- at the cannelure it turns out the same OAL as a factory Federal 150gr.

I'm starting with IMR4831 and Hdy 139gr BTSP Interlock. 201M. I may shoot the ascending charges round robin like in the OCW method suggests. In any event, I'll look for relative POI with each charge and go from there.

Any suggestions for the 139gr Hdy?

 

[farout]

Great time for this older thread to bubble to the surface. Perfect timing as I am starting load development next week on some 185 VLDs in a 300 WSM. Going to try some of the methods here and see if I get better results than my old ways.

Thanks, All.

 

[ShowMeShooter]

great read....

 

[BlueEyeDog]

I am just getting into Long Range shooting and have studied the various effects of reloads. I was following the 5 shot X .5gr step method and this sound much more effective in time and cost.
Great article!!