desertbull
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 251
What's the best way to level the rifle when there are no flat surfaces on the action, rings, etc?
Leverling rifle and scope ???
- Thread starter Tnwhip
- Start date
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
By using an old fashioned bore sighter/aligner that mounts from the end of the bore and has a checkerboard screen with it's own crosshairs for you to align it with.
You can use it to take the cant out and then adjust a scope level to match it.
rinodods
Well-Known Member
I have that same feeling sometimes. You could just swear that thing is not in line. I guess in the long run it comes down to how comfortable you are with your rig. If everything is completely square yet so uncomfortable you can't shoot then you are better off with a little cant. A few degrees probably isn't going to hurt anything. Practice will cure about anything. Even a guy with a really poorly setup rig that gets a lot of shooting in will surprise you. Just do your best to setup your rifle correctly then get to know it real well by actually shooting in the field.
I have to agree with paphil. "Gun cant does not matter, scope cant does!"
rinodods has a good point and is correct as well, however when talking rifle cant to make a shooter feel more comfortable, and have a reticle "appear" vertical, will make a more accurate shooter.
The cant of a rifle, and having the scope off center from the bore is not as critical as one would think.
Before the example we must understand: 1. that once the bullet leaves the bore it falls directly in line with gravity. 2. Our scope travel or crosshairs must also travel inline with gravity.
Example: Lets say that we set up a pretty extreme cant in the rifle, but kept the retical, and scope travel vertical and have a level installed on the scope. With a sight height of 1.75", and the gun at about a 10 degree agle the scope would be to the left/right of the bore about 1/8". (This would feel VERY extreme). If the gun were zeroed at 200yrds, the impact point at the muzzle would be 1/8" to the right. At 100yrds the impact point would be 1/16" to the right. At 400yrds = 1/8" to the left. And so on... 600 = 1/4" left, 800 = 3/8" left, 1000 = 1/2" left.
Keep in mind a 10 degree angle would be more than any shooter would need to correct for the "feel" of the rifle to make the crosshairs appear level.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, but I have tested this several times.
So... the single most important thing when setting up a level on a scope is that the TRAVEL of the scope follows a plumb line if you are going to dial for your yardage. Many times the reticle in the scope will not be installed 100% in line with the scope travel. If you have a reticle with hold over marks, and you are not going to dial, then simply set the level so the crosshairs are perfectly in line with a plum line.
Hope this helps
aroshtr
rinodods has a good point and is correct as well, however when talking rifle cant to make a shooter feel more comfortable, and have a reticle "appear" vertical, will make a more accurate shooter.
The cant of a rifle, and having the scope off center from the bore is not as critical as one would think.
Before the example we must understand: 1. that once the bullet leaves the bore it falls directly in line with gravity. 2. Our scope travel or crosshairs must also travel inline with gravity.
Example: Lets say that we set up a pretty extreme cant in the rifle, but kept the retical, and scope travel vertical and have a level installed on the scope. With a sight height of 1.75", and the gun at about a 10 degree agle the scope would be to the left/right of the bore about 1/8". (This would feel VERY extreme). If the gun were zeroed at 200yrds, the impact point at the muzzle would be 1/8" to the right. At 100yrds the impact point would be 1/16" to the right. At 400yrds = 1/8" to the left. And so on... 600 = 1/4" left, 800 = 3/8" left, 1000 = 1/2" left.
Keep in mind a 10 degree angle would be more than any shooter would need to correct for the "feel" of the rifle to make the crosshairs appear level.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, but I have tested this several times.
So... the single most important thing when setting up a level on a scope is that the TRAVEL of the scope follows a plumb line if you are going to dial for your yardage. Many times the reticle in the scope will not be installed 100% in line with the scope travel. If you have a reticle with hold over marks, and you are not going to dial, then simply set the level so the crosshairs are perfectly in line with a plum line.
Hope this helps
aroshtr
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This canting thing has been worrying me. I know my rifle is level. I know my scope is level. The scope tracks right. I went out side and took my rifle and set it up on my pick nick table and looked at a plumb line again. Everthing lined up vertical and my scope level is level. I can close my eyes and shoulded the rifle on the bags, open my eyes and look at the vertical line of the cross hair, I make it look level to my eyes, now look at my scope level and it is very close to level. That is good. But the horizontal line looks canted, it is level with the horizontal level line on my back shead. There for, it is just me, or an opticial illusion that I am seeing. I am not canting the rifle, the scope is not canted. I will not try and level the scope with the horizontal line anymore when I set up just the vertical line then check the scope level.It is almost dead on every time doing it that way.lightbulbI was just me all along.
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
It could be that the horizontal line of the shed is off just a bit as well.... .This canting thing has been worrying me. I know my rifle is level. I know my scope is level. The scope tracks right. I went out side and took my rifle and set it up on my pick nick table and looked at a plumb line again. Everthing lined up vertical and my scope level is level. I can close my eyes and shoulded the rifle on the bags, open my eyes and look at the vertical line of the cross hair, I make it look level to my eyes, now look at my scope level and it is very close to level. That is good. But the horizontal line looks canted, it is level with the horizontal level line on my back shead. There for, it is just me, or an opticial illusion that I am seeing. I am not canting the rifle, the scope is not canted. I will not try and level the scope with the horizontal line anymore when I set up just the vertical line then check the scope level.It is almost dead on every time doing it that way.lightbulbI was just me all along.
paphil
Well-Known Member
I never knew that I was a half bubble off plumb either till I started using a scope level !! We (my son and I ) always shot the same size groups but they were never in the same place until we got that darned level ! I agree it does feel strange at first but the level does not lie !
We (my son and I ) always shot the same size groups but they were never in the same place until we got that darned level ! I agree it does feel strange at first but the level does not lie !No, it is dead on with two levels. Everything is level. It just does not look like it to me. The next time one of my friends comes over I will get them to look at it and get his opinion. It is just me.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Well some people have a natural eye for "square" "Plum" and "level" and some don't.
Glad you got it figured out though. As long as your vertical crosshair is plum you'll be fine even if it does make the horizontal CH appear to be out of level.
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Have you tried looking through it from the other side with your other eye? It will be hard to do with your non-dominant eye but may literally give you a different perspective. Also try putting it on a rest or in a vice and standing directly behind it and take a look.
Just trying to give you some cheap options to try.
Just trying to give you some cheap options to try.
