RangerBrad
Well-Known Member
What are yal's thoughts on HSM Trophy Gold ammunition? I bought a couple of boxs to test on my 25-06 project when it comes back. Brad
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Lessons learned. Now your advice on equipment.
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MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
No, actually it needs a very short throat because the ogive comes right to the forward driving band which is also the sealing band, which is flared out from the ogive. The forward driving/sealing band can not be seated into the neck or else it will not function properly. The forward driving band will be seated to, but not into the neck, which means for this bullet to be seated to the lans, the rifling must come right back to about .010-.020 from the mouth of the case.
Hard to describe so I'll link this diagram from GS.
The bullet has been re-designed since this drawing and the changes are a slighlty smaller HP Meplat (.70 by my measurement), longer nose/ogive, forward (fith) driving band incorporated into the ogive and the driving bands and bore riding surface all moved back toward the tail. The nose, including front driving band is 1.030" long which is about 0.20 longer than the 210 Berger nose by my measurement. the neck bearing surface, (aft 4 driving bands) is about .260", not much room for adjustment. The rest is boat tail.
GS CUSTOM BULLETS - Specifications for use
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
If you want to do it right for long range work, then hand load custom ammo that works best in your rifle. You wont see any precision shooting sports like F-class and BR using factory ammo and there's a reason for that. The HSM stuff may work good, but it's really impossible for anyone to predict until you put it down your tube and there's a fair chance it will vary from lot to lot.
Good
Well-Known Member
I've been wondering about those GS Custom 177s for a long time. Their cost prevents me from trying them in the '06 with 10 twist, but they sure look promising. The BC used to be advertised in the 7s.
Optics
No offence to you NF guys, and NF makes a good reliable scope, but there are other companies with more to offer around the same price range IMHO. If I were to spend 2k on a scope, it would probably be the Vortex Razor. Better glass than the NF and the Vortex is FFP. Other than the Vortex, in this price range, there is the IOR Valdada which also offers better glass than the NF and is also FFP. I don't own any of these, but my shooting buddy sports the IOR and another close friend has the NF. The NF is just not what I'd expect from a $2k purchase and would be way down my list with these other options available. Another scope worth looking at if you don't want a FFP is the Zeiss Diavari. There's a used one in the for sale section for $1k. Great glass but not sure about tracking...
I like Vortex also due to warranty. A friend found a pair of Kaibab binocs that someone had left on their truck and drove away (we assume). They were thrashed. He contacted Vortex and they replaced them for free- even though he told them what had happened to binocs. He got a pair of brand new Kaibabs for free! That's how Vortex operates.
Guns
sp6x6 has a nasty 338 Norma mag (nasty in an awesome way). ABS carbon barrel, Lonewolf stock, etc. Weighs 8lbs 12oz with scope and shoots 1" at 400yds. That's the gun I'd build if I had the cashola. I like the idea of light weight for packing, but still being able to deliver destruction downrange.
One of these days I may end up with a custom from Kevin Cram with Montour County Rifles on the 375-408 Chey Tac platform, with a Razor on top. We'll see.
Optics
No offence to you NF guys, and NF makes a good reliable scope, but there are other companies with more to offer around the same price range IMHO. If I were to spend 2k on a scope, it would probably be the Vortex Razor. Better glass than the NF and the Vortex is FFP. Other than the Vortex, in this price range, there is the IOR Valdada which also offers better glass than the NF and is also FFP. I don't own any of these, but my shooting buddy sports the IOR and another close friend has the NF. The NF is just not what I'd expect from a $2k purchase and would be way down my list with these other options available. Another scope worth looking at if you don't want a FFP is the Zeiss Diavari. There's a used one in the for sale section for $1k. Great glass but not sure about tracking...
I like Vortex also due to warranty. A friend found a pair of Kaibab binocs that someone had left on their truck and drove away (we assume). They were thrashed. He contacted Vortex and they replaced them for free- even though he told them what had happened to binocs. He got a pair of brand new Kaibabs for free! That's how Vortex operates.
Guns
sp6x6 has a nasty 338 Norma mag (nasty in an awesome way). ABS carbon barrel, Lonewolf stock, etc. Weighs 8lbs 12oz with scope and shoots 1" at 400yds. That's the gun I'd build if I had the cashola. I like the idea of light weight for packing, but still being able to deliver destruction downrange.
One of these days I may end up with a custom from Kevin Cram with Montour County Rifles on the 375-408 Chey Tac platform, with a Razor on top. We'll see.
MontanaRifleman
What is an exotic cartridge and bullet? good question.
Here is a simple and very applicable explanation.
It is the one small time mftr from South Africa or Canada, that is 2-3x more expensive than off the shelf bullets that are available anywhere. The GS 177 has a BC (.638) that is similar or even less than the 210 JLK at .680, 208 Hornady at .620 and 225 Hornday at .660, 210 Berger at .631, just to name a few.
This forum is riddled with guys asking "where and when can I get the super bullet of the day" , "I am out of them, will someone sell me 25-50" "When will production be back up and the bullets available?", etc, etc.
Again, I state that is not the bullet for a first timer. Anyone else, take your chances. You obviously like them and OK, but it cannot remotely be called the wonder bullet when you look at the BC, price and most importantly availability issues documented on this forum.
If you think the 300 weatherby will not go 1200 with a 210, 208 or 225 and kill anything in North America, you really need to look it up and get more familiar with it. It runs within 100 fps of the RUMs within any bullet. Now a necked down 30-338 lapua will outrun it and again, not the case for a first timer IMO.
We have a lot of wildcats here that require advanced loading techiques to size, fireform etc that are not adviable (IMO) for a first timer. Advanced reloader, go for it.
As for the custom vs tweaked 700, that dog has been beat to death. NO one can legitimately claim a tweaked 700 is as a smooth, cost effective and most importantly reliable, particularily in the larger cases.
Just because you have an action it is not free. It can be sold to offset the cost of a custom. I have had too many rem extractors break on a hunt to every seriously even consider using a 700 as a serious LR build platform when for about the same money I have something that is smoother and most importantly more reliable. Now if reliability and smoothness is of no concern build on anything and money be damned.
A used 700 action goes for $400, add the costs of truing, lapping/machining lugs, changing extractors, maybe other bolt mods, trued recoil lugs, bolt release etc totalled up to the cost of an out of the box custom for under $850. No brainer IMO, but to each his own.
BH
What is an exotic cartridge and bullet? good question.
Here is a simple and very applicable explanation.
It is the one small time mftr from South Africa or Canada, that is 2-3x more expensive than off the shelf bullets that are available anywhere. The GS 177 has a BC (.638) that is similar or even less than the 210 JLK at .680, 208 Hornady at .620 and 225 Hornday at .660, 210 Berger at .631, just to name a few.
This forum is riddled with guys asking "where and when can I get the super bullet of the day" , "I am out of them, will someone sell me 25-50" "When will production be back up and the bullets available?", etc, etc.
Again, I state that is not the bullet for a first timer. Anyone else, take your chances. You obviously like them and OK, but it cannot remotely be called the wonder bullet when you look at the BC, price and most importantly availability issues documented on this forum.
If you think the 300 weatherby will not go 1200 with a 210, 208 or 225 and kill anything in North America, you really need to look it up and get more familiar with it. It runs within 100 fps of the RUMs within any bullet. Now a necked down 30-338 lapua will outrun it and again, not the case for a first timer IMO.
We have a lot of wildcats here that require advanced loading techiques to size, fireform etc that are not adviable (IMO) for a first timer. Advanced reloader, go for it.
As for the custom vs tweaked 700, that dog has been beat to death. NO one can legitimately claim a tweaked 700 is as a smooth, cost effective and most importantly reliable, particularily in the larger cases.
Just because you have an action it is not free. It can be sold to offset the cost of a custom. I have had too many rem extractors break on a hunt to every seriously even consider using a 700 as a serious LR build platform when for about the same money I have something that is smoother and most importantly more reliable. Now if reliability and smoothness is of no concern build on anything and money be damned.
A used 700 action goes for $400, add the costs of truing, lapping/machining lugs, changing extractors, maybe other bolt mods, trued recoil lugs, bolt release etc totalled up to the cost of an out of the box custom for under $850. No brainer IMO, but to each his own.
BH
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MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Good
Well-Known Member
Back in '09 I made a thread about them and that was when they were listed real high.
Here's the thread:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/gs-bullets-47495/
Here's the thread:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/gs-bullets-47495/
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I also started a thread on them back in Jan of 2009 and the BC was the same .638 at 3300 fps back then as it is now.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/gs-moly-coated-bullets-37903/
Good
Well-Known Member
Touche. That's what I get for trusting my memory. I could still swear they said like .717 or something like that. Oh well, Amen, and amen.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Touche. That's what I get for trusting my memory. I could still swear they said like .717 or something like that. Oh well, Amen, and amen.
Maybe you were thinking about the GS SP
(Spear Point - non-expanding solid)Here is a perfect example of why I say building a serious LR rifle off a 700 action is not advisable, not with the prices of tweaking the 700 compared to a quality custom.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/700-extractor-replacement-70041/
Had this happen twice. Carrying a long cleaning rod to knock cases out is not fun.
BH
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/700-extractor-replacement-70041/
Had this happen twice. Carrying a long cleaning rod to knock cases out is not fun.
BH
