Leica 1600B

[Northerner]

NW Hunter,

Thanks for the feedback. If I did my math correct 980 yards at 8 degress should have given a true horizontal distance of 970. At 8 degrees the change from line of sight to horizontal distance is right at 1%. I am not sure what the accuracy of these rangefinders are and if 1% is as close as they will get?

 

[NW Hunter]

Northerner,

I'm just learning right alongside with you!

 

[cjuve]

Just recieved my 1600 B and so far I am not impressed, will not range a white 2 story house at 1200 yds, this is not what I was expecting. Looks like it is going to be returned.

 

[Alan Griffith]

I've been running my 1600 for the past year and absolutely love it. I shoot a 6.5x47 Lapua running the Berger 130 VLD @ 2970 so Ballistic Curve #3 fits the bill. I shoot it out to 500 yds and as long as I do my part, I hit everything. Simply range, count 1-2 seconds and the drop in MOA comes up. I then either hold over using my NF NP-R1 reticle or dial and clang goes the steel. I lent it to my partner and he used it yesterday with his AR15 with a 69 gr Match Burner and used curve #5. He hit everything out to 600 with it. It's rated to 550 but was successful using out that far. I trust this thing so much I just got the new 1600-B but haven't tested it as I'm out of the state. When I get back on the 22nd I've got a few days to verify it's worth 'cause on the 27th, my partner and I are competing in a 24hr Sniper Challenge in the No. Utah desert mtns where temps can range from 40 to 100, altitudes from 4500 to 7000 and angles up to 60 deg. From what I've read, when we arrive at a COF, we find and range reactive steel targets. We're given a less than generous time to set up and hit each each target. I don't want to have to worry about pulling out the Kestrel, EXBAL, note book, etc which will all eat up time. With this thing, it's simply point, range, dial and shoot.

I'll give a more succinct report after the match.

Alan

 

[bedrok]

I bought the 1600 B and have tried it out briefly. On the positive side, it has a hell of a range, 1250 yds in haze and looking partially into the sun, almost 1900 yds on foliage on an overcast morning. As for it's other functions, it seems you can program it to display holdover OR compensate for vertical angle (what it calls Equivilant Horizontal Range), not both. After selecting the ballistic curve, zero range and units of holdover (in my case 1/4 moa) it works fine for horizantal but does not compensate for angle. Then when I go back into program mode to set it to display EHr, it cancels out the previously entered settings. The instructions are a little vague on this (or I'm a little dumb) but I can't seem to get this figured out.

 

[Alan Griffith]

I hear ya! I opened up my new 1600-B yesterday and the instructions are sometimes hard to understand. At lease the unit is easier to set up than my original 1600.

I was able to range some dark oak brush out to 1975 in evening light. From an upstairs window I ranged the following.

Compare Shooter to Leica 1600-B
Curve #3
Yards- Shooter clicks- Leica clicks-
138 1 0
149 2 1
156 2 1
230 7 6
256 9 8
303 13 11
413 22 22
440 25 24
470 28 27
472 28 28
520 33 33
531 35 34
553 37 37

693 53 56
725 57 61
802 67 74
841 72 81
852 73 83
873 76 87

These are all pretty much horizontal distances. Will try and get out this evening to the canyon behind my house and range some "up" angle items.

Found one target at 877 yds and it would not give me a firing solution. The spec sheet in 800m/875 yds is max for firing solutions. Was pleased I got the one @ 873 yds.

I used the 100 yd zero and the when looking for the appropriate 100 yd zero reference chart in the back of the booklet, on pg 181, it gave the 12 curves as EU (European) for meters instead of US (United States) for yards. A simple misprint but had I not known what I was looking for, i'd have been lost and frustrated waiting for Leica CS to open up Monday am. The old 1600 manual only goes to 300 yds while the new 1600-B goes to 500 yds for the zero range charts.

Looking at my results and the zero range charts, it seems everything is hunky dorrie until around 500+ yds at which time the two curves seem to depart a little more with increasing distance; as much as 2.75 moa at 873 yds. It may be I need to use curve #2, a bit flatter curve. I'll more this evening. At 300 yds my Shooter program says 9.76" low and the chart says 9.6". Yet at 500 yds, Shooter says 41.1" and chart = 45.
Curve #2 @ 500 says 42.1.

I'm probably confusing the heck out of everyone with this chart stuff. The chart is used to help the user decide which curve to use. Curve #3 is pretty much spot on out to about 500 yds; beyond is where the divergence starts.

Alan

 

[bedrok]

You're not confusing at all. You make way better sense than the 1600B manual. I confirmed this afternoon that in the mode that gives you the amount of holdover, it's not compensating for virtical angle. Every time I enter the EHr mode, it cancels out the holdover display. The info on the left hand side of page 36 was written by somebody without a firm grasp of english grammer so I don't know if It's possible to have the holdover displayed while compensating for angle. If not, the they spent a whole lot of expense on programming that's pretty much worthless unless you hunt only in the flatlands.

 

[Alan Griffith]

I spent an hour or so at the mouth of Rock Canyon, Provo, Utah, ranging angles up to 32 deg out to the limits of the the ABC Ball Calc. It's a wonderful tool. I would range a rock, tree or bush and write the distance and drop in 1/4 moa clicks. I'd then mark them down in my EXCEL file on my laptop. I go back and immediately range it again but then I'd get the angle in deg, temperature in deg and barometric pressure in inches of MG. I'd then quickly transfer them to my SHOOTER program on my DROID and get the drop, again, in 1/4 moa clicks. My 1600-B was set up in the "1-4" or 1/4 moa mode.

I've been running cure #3 with my standard 1600 model and so started with it. These are pretty much level.

Curve #3
Yards- Shooter clicks- Leica clicks
138 1 0
149 2 1
156 2 1
230 7 6
256 9 8
303 13 11
413 22 22
440 25 24
470 28 27
472 28 28
520 33 33
531 35 34
553 37 37
693 53 56
725 57 61
802 67 74
841 72 81
852 73 83
873 76 87

These are at an angle.

Curve #3

15 to 32 deg up angles
Yardage- Shooter clicks- 1600-B clicks

176 2 2
235 6 5
275 8 8
352 15 15
383 18 17
524 28 27
678 46 50
714 49 52
839 62 70
870 64 72

Curve #2 ranged level

Curve 2
Yards- SHOOTER Clicks- Leica clicks
137 1 0
234 7 4
294 12 8
314 14 10
325 14 11
394 20 15
420 23 19
458 27 23
514 30 27
527 34 30
530 34 31
550 34 31
587 38 35
677 51 52
725 56 61
801 66 75
849 73 87
857 73 86

Curve #2 at an angle.

Curve #2

15 to 32 deg up angles
Yardage Shooter clicks 1600-B clicks

221 6 3
376 17 13
513 30 27
534 27 24
572 33 31
692 48 52
716 46 49
756 53 56
763 54 58
813 60 68
848 68 81
763 54 58
813 60 68
848 68 81

Right around 800 yds, things go askew and the Shooter and 1600-B both start to diverge apart from each other more than 1 MOA/4 clicks.

Alan

 

[bedrok]

Good info Alan, Thanks for posting it. Leica didn't include a curve that comes close to what I need. I compared curve #2 to shooter for a .284 160gr. Accubond at 2960 (I've verified Shooters data with actual drop and it's right on). #2 is the closest but not near close enough. It's flatter than Shooter to 600yds, at which point it matches, then drops drastically. I'm wondering where they came up with their choices for the curves. It's a good unit but I'm afraid their holdover mode will be used by very few shooters. I compared Shooters data for various loads for .338 Lapua and 33/378 (theoretical because I don't own one yet) and they all fall between Leicas #1 and #2, not close enough to use.

 

[Alan Griffith]

I think for me, with curve #3, out to 550, I'm always within 1 click/1/4 MOA. This is for "fast" developing targets. Beyond that, I'll have to break out a ballistic program. At least I can still use the data off the 1600-B for input.

I wish Leica had given us an option giving us drop in MOA with a decimal point. Instead, they give us whole MOA, 1/3 MOA or 1/4 MOA in clicks. My old 1600 would at least give me, example, 6.25 moa instead of 25 clicks. Under pressure, my brain goes to mush.

My best friend is looking at this for his 6.5x284 with the 140 VLD @ 3050. Based upon your info, his may be too flat too.

Alan

 

[bedrok]

Im going to do a bunch of testing to determine how curve#2 compares with my trajectory in diff.conditions and angles to see if I can come up with a simple card that says if the 1600B says this number of clicks, then I hold this many. Its already calculated temp, air density and angle for you so most of the work's done. It would definitely simplify things in the field.

 

[Chukar Plucker]

Alan -

So are you saying that in the 1/4 moa read out the 1600-B is giving you true horizontal distance and not line of sight?

The other posts seem to make it sould like you either had to choose 1/4 moa read out or True Horizontal, but based on your charts it looks like to me that the 1/4 moa is giving you adjustment for true line of sight taking into consideration the angle of the shot?

What did you determine in your testing.

I know the 1600 will give you the angle but not the compensated distance.

 

[Browninglover1]

I know the 1600 will give you the angle but not the compensated distance.

The 1600B is supposed to give EHR (Equivalent Horizontal Range) but I can't mine to give it to me. I haven't played with it a whole ton but following the instruction manual I wasn't able to get it to display the EHR.

I've loved this rangefinder though! I've hit over 1800 yards multiple times ranging trees.... it's a huge upgrade from my old Bushnell

 

[Alan Griffith]

Here is what I've seen with my 1600-B.

When set in the EHR mode, it would give both actual range and adjusted range.

When using the 1/4 MOA click mode it would measure actual range but give adjusted clicks where straight or angled.

I posted both ranges/clicks based on horizontal range as well as angled ranges.

Sorry if this isn't clear enough.

Alan