340Shooter
Well-Known Member
Woods,
I am thinking of going the custom route. You mentioned that you use the RCBS Comp seater. Do they custom make those also? And do you get custom Lee crimp die made?
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Lee Collet Dies vs Redding S bushing dies
- Thread starter dlebeck
- Start date
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Woods,
I am thinking of going the custom route. You mentioned that you use the RCBS Comp seater. Do they custom make those also? And do you get custom Lee crimp die made?
woods
Well-Known Member
Don't know if they custom make the RCBS competition seater, probably not. For my 6.5 rem mag I use the 6.5x55 Swede RCBS comp seater and will settle for a Redding Comp seater or Forster Comp seater if the RCBS is not available.
I'm kinda off of the Lee crimp die because they tend to progressively shorten the case length when you have to chamfer off the previous crimp. I discovered this on my 280AI when on the 6th or 7th reload I could no longer crimp with the LFCD because the case length fell out of it's range. Now I shoot for .003" bullet grip and haven't seen the need for crimping anymore. Probably should on the 375 Ruger or the 338RUM but we'll see.
If you get a custom Lee Collet made also get them to send you mandrels .002" and .003" under caliber diameter and it will give you some options for more bullet grip. They only cost $5.00 each after you hit the minimum amount for shipping.
joe0121
Well-Known Member
I love my Lee. No issues with the case wanting to stick. Eventually Ill get around to reducing the size of the mandrel a bit to get some more neck tension. Probably when I get a Co-ax press. I re-load for the 300 WM and after three reloadings the don't like to feed. I set up my Hornady FL sizer the set the should back .010 and run it down. I also anneal the brass for this step. Brass gets annealed and fl sized every three shots. I'm kinda a new reloading and I started out with over 200 peices of brass so I haven't had one fail yet and I'm on 6 reloadings.
In consideration of the $77.00 difference in the price of a set of dies, the small inconvenience of polishing out a couple burrs is very small to me. I often buy used dies on ebay that are sometimes worn from sizing nickel brass. I take a 28 gauge cleaning brush and wrap it with 1500 grit sand paper just a hair past the top of the brush, put it in a drill and run it into the dies, it quickly polishes out the burrs scratching the brass and doesn't take enough metal off to effect the neck tension a measurable amount. And it takes 5 minutes or less. worth my time.
g0rd0
Well-Known Member
I have used my lee collet dies for many years. No problemsgun).
I use 7mm rem mag and I used to also use the collet die in 3030 win for a handgun. I sold the hand gun and sent the dies with it.
I find that when siseing after I sise I pull the case out just a little, spin it and redo The bullet always keeps its place when I do this.
I also seat the bullet way out out past max oal so that as I chamber the round the bullet contacts the rifleing, this insures that there is positive contact with the rifleing as soon as peasure builds.
For hunting I full lengh sise and seat the bullet to oal specs.
When I first got this rifle I had problems chambering after 3 or 4 reloads, a freind told me to trim the brass and once I started trimming NO PROBLEMS at all
I use 7mm rem mag and I used to also use the collet die in 3030 win for a handgun. I sold the hand gun and sent the dies with it.
I find that when siseing after I sise I pull the case out just a little, spin it and redo The bullet always keeps its place when I do this.
I also seat the bullet way out out past max oal so that as I chamber the round the bullet contacts the rifleing, this insures that there is positive contact with the rifleing as soon as peasure builds.
For hunting I full lengh sise and seat the bullet to oal specs.
When I first got this rifle I had problems chambering after 3 or 4 reloads, a freind told me to trim the brass and once I started trimming NO PROBLEMS at all
I like the concept of the lee collet dies, and in fact had bought some for the cartridges I load.
I used a forster co-ax press and about all I accomplished was popping the top of the lee dies out of the body.
never could get a consistent set up for re-sizing the necks with them.
I used a forster co-ax press and about all I accomplished was popping the top of the lee dies out of the body.
never could get a consistent set up for re-sizing the necks with them.
340Shooter
No problem having Lee make you a custom set. They made a friend a 7WSM set last summer. Turn around was about five weeks after he sent two fired cases to them.
Thanks to all who have posted on this topic. Regardless which brand one leans toward, I read that tinkering is all part of the fun.
Norman
No problem having Lee make you a custom set. They made a friend a 7WSM set last summer. Turn around was about five weeks after he sent two fired cases to them.
Thanks to all who have posted on this topic. Regardless which brand one leans toward, I read that tinkering is all part of the fun.
Norman
boomtube
Well-Known Member
"Don't know if they custom make the RCBS competition seater, probably not."
What's to 'custom' make; the RCBS comp seater only holds the bullet in line with the mouth of the case. That makes it a generic seater for any case of the same caliber and approximate same length.
Don't know why anyone would chamfer away a Lee FCD crimp either, in my rifles crimps of any kind blow out nicely and leave the original neck chamfer still safely in place. ??
So far as the collet die being engineered dung, I've not had any problem getting a half dozen or more to work quite nicely for me and they all leave my necks both as straight as the case itself permits and the bullet 'tension' is fine. Yes, the collets usually need a little finishing but it's simple and well within what I would expect any reloader can easily handle.
What's to 'custom' make; the RCBS comp seater only holds the bullet in line with the mouth of the case. That makes it a generic seater for any case of the same caliber and approximate same length.
Don't know why anyone would chamfer away a Lee FCD crimp either, in my rifles crimps of any kind blow out nicely and leave the original neck chamfer still safely in place. ??
So far as the collet die being engineered dung, I've not had any problem getting a half dozen or more to work quite nicely for me and they all leave my necks both as straight as the case itself permits and the bullet 'tension' is fine. Yes, the collets usually need a little finishing but it's simple and well within what I would expect any reloader can easily handle.
joe0121
Well-Known Member
Can you use it with the Lee die? My WM needs a FL sizing after every third or fourth reloading.
joe0121
Well-Known Member
check ammosmith on youtube. he has a video about the set up.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
you are aware of the fact that you take simply run a reamer in the sliding sleeve of the Forster seater? If it were me, I'd go for a reamer with a tight neck, and then custom bore the neck to about .0015" larger (a hone will do the samething better)
gary
I have followed this thread closely cause I have a 6.5 CM std reamer being custom built and have been ordering reloading equipment for it. Have always used std FL dies but now I want to learn the finer points in LR shooting and reloading for concentricity. I have a Redding S Type FL die and competition seating die set. I planned on using this die without expander ball. After reading this thread and several others I am wondering if I should be using an expander mandrel, Lee Collet die, etc.?
My goal is to make sure functions in rifle (hence the FL sizing) everytime, runout is .001 or less on neck and bullet, and to have as few of steps as possible. I enjoy reloading but you can spend a TON of time if did everything there is to do. Due to time, I have decided I don't want to anneal or turn necks ( I would rather just throw away worn out cases and get more). UNLESS, that is required to get this type of runout.
My typical process is:
tumble hour or so, inspect cases
brush necks to clean
Sinclair Concentricity gage
FL size/decap on Redding Big Boss 2
tumble corn cob 1 hr
debur flash holes (only once on new cases)
uniform primer pockets
trim cases (just ordered Giraud, was using Sinclair Ultimate)
chamfer/debur/ brush case necks
sort cases by weight (new batch once only)
Sinclair Case Neck Sorter to check neck thickness variation (new batch once only)
Concentricity gage again to see how runout is after sizing
primer seating (RCBS handheld)
Powder charging (RCBS Chargemaster, love it!)
Sort bullets by ogive length
seat bullets (about .002 tension)
concentricity gage for bullet runout
I am not afraid of doing the work (fun for me to a point). I have not wanted to add steps like annealing or turning necks but don't know what steps should be done and what should be ignored as waste of time. My real question is best way to do sizing and setting neck tension which provides the least runout. I know there are a million ways to do all of this but am sure there is a better way than I have been doing. My runout using method above for my .223 has been about .002 avg using std FL dies. After reading many threads I have ran across many that think bushing dies are a waste and/or should be using Lee collet dies or using expander mandrel, etc. Very confusing. Thanks for the help and sorry for the length!
My goal is to make sure functions in rifle (hence the FL sizing) everytime, runout is .001 or less on neck and bullet, and to have as few of steps as possible. I enjoy reloading but you can spend a TON of time if did everything there is to do. Due to time, I have decided I don't want to anneal or turn necks ( I would rather just throw away worn out cases and get more). UNLESS, that is required to get this type of runout.
My typical process is:
tumble hour or so, inspect cases
brush necks to clean
Sinclair Concentricity gage
FL size/decap on Redding Big Boss 2
tumble corn cob 1 hr
debur flash holes (only once on new cases)
uniform primer pockets
trim cases (just ordered Giraud, was using Sinclair Ultimate)
chamfer/debur/ brush case necks
sort cases by weight (new batch once only)
Sinclair Case Neck Sorter to check neck thickness variation (new batch once only)
Concentricity gage again to see how runout is after sizing
primer seating (RCBS handheld)
Powder charging (RCBS Chargemaster, love it!)
Sort bullets by ogive length
seat bullets (about .002 tension)
concentricity gage for bullet runout
I am not afraid of doing the work (fun for me to a point). I have not wanted to add steps like annealing or turning necks but don't know what steps should be done and what should be ignored as waste of time. My real question is best way to do sizing and setting neck tension which provides the least runout. I know there are a million ways to do all of this but am sure there is a better way than I have been doing. My runout using method above for my .223 has been about .002 avg using std FL dies. After reading many threads I have ran across many that think bushing dies are a waste and/or should be using Lee collet dies or using expander mandrel, etc. Very confusing. Thanks for the help and sorry for the length!
First, yes this is an old thread, but it's younger than brass cartridges with necks that are not concentric.
Second, I think everyone's opinion may be right, even when their results are opposite. I see this as a problem with manufacturing quality. I just sent back a brand new Redding FL sizer that had three problems. The threads were extremely rough; I have seen Rigid plumber's machines cut smoother threads than these were. I was afraid that a few trips in and out of my press would have started cutting my press threads oversize. The next issue was this brand new die had been physically beaten by something that flattened the tops of the three lowest threads, and made a 3/32" diameter dent between the threads and the base. I regret not taking pictures of it. Finally the expander stem was horribly off-center. Not trashing Redding too badly here as the replacement is very nice on all counts.
But here is the problem, why do we get such variations in workmanship? Is their no pride in a job well done, or is it because the robots that are making things these days have no pride?
Why do I open the Sinclair catalogue to read that somebody's standard dies are "some of the finest in the world" and made on ....lathes.....tightest tolerances..... manufactured to the highest standards..........polished......flawless functioning? This sounds great until I look in the Competition die section and read that to get precise neck sizing, I should buy a die with a bunch of interchangeable parts. But wait a minute, wasn't the standard die supposed to be the one of the finest in the world. The answer folks, is mass production.
To argue that having one die set of any brand, or design, that produced poor results is meaningless. Just as the poster several pages back did with the multi level test, to test the worth of a die design, one ought to try several, or ten different sets from different lots, then compare the results. In other words, we the consumer should do the quality checking the manufacturers don't do. Those are probably fighting words to some, however we don't have Consumer Reports Magazine riding the backs of lathe operators with chattering cutters. Instead smooth talking copywriters get hired to assure us that the die we are buying is among the finest in the world. Disgusting isn't it?
A few pages back the term elitist came up. Unfortunately the elite who can afford to pay for custom perfection have the best chance of getting it. Meanwhile the rest of us will have to continue to pay our money, take our chances, and try to stomach the mediocrity of this mass production world.
bbowles it sounds like you are doing it right. Everybody has a different version of right, but if your ammo shoots to a competitive level, demonstrated in competition, or at least witnessed against other rifles, then you are OK. Don't place too much credence on internet bughole shooters.
Your biggest asset is the test equipment you have. Buy more of it, and buy one or two of the other ammo producing products. Ever wonder why there are so many sets of used dies around? Some were probably not worth sh!t when they were new. One poster way back talked of having die boxes with mixed pieces in them. That is probably where your journey is taking you. A Chev front end, Chrysler doors, Ford rear end, Toyota roof etc. Good luck.
Second, I think everyone's opinion may be right, even when their results are opposite. I see this as a problem with manufacturing quality. I just sent back a brand new Redding FL sizer that had three problems. The threads were extremely rough; I have seen Rigid plumber's machines cut smoother threads than these were. I was afraid that a few trips in and out of my press would have started cutting my press threads oversize. The next issue was this brand new die had been physically beaten by something that flattened the tops of the three lowest threads, and made a 3/32" diameter dent between the threads and the base. I regret not taking pictures of it. Finally the expander stem was horribly off-center. Not trashing Redding too badly here as the replacement is very nice on all counts.
But here is the problem, why do we get such variations in workmanship? Is their no pride in a job well done, or is it because the robots that are making things these days have no pride?
Why do I open the Sinclair catalogue to read that somebody's standard dies are "some of the finest in the world" and made on ....lathes.....tightest tolerances..... manufactured to the highest standards..........polished......flawless functioning? This sounds great until I look in the Competition die section and read that to get precise neck sizing, I should buy a die with a bunch of interchangeable parts. But wait a minute, wasn't the standard die supposed to be the one of the finest in the world. The answer folks, is mass production.
To argue that having one die set of any brand, or design, that produced poor results is meaningless. Just as the poster several pages back did with the multi level test, to test the worth of a die design, one ought to try several, or ten different sets from different lots, then compare the results. In other words, we the consumer should do the quality checking the manufacturers don't do. Those are probably fighting words to some, however we don't have Consumer Reports Magazine riding the backs of lathe operators with chattering cutters. Instead smooth talking copywriters get hired to assure us that the die we are buying is among the finest in the world. Disgusting isn't it?
A few pages back the term elitist came up. Unfortunately the elite who can afford to pay for custom perfection have the best chance of getting it. Meanwhile the rest of us will have to continue to pay our money, take our chances, and try to stomach the mediocrity of this mass production world.
bbowles it sounds like you are doing it right. Everybody has a different version of right, but if your ammo shoots to a competitive level, demonstrated in competition, or at least witnessed against other rifles, then you are OK. Don't place too much credence on internet bughole shooters.
Your biggest asset is the test equipment you have. Buy more of it, and buy one or two of the other ammo producing products. Ever wonder why there are so many sets of used dies around? Some were probably not worth sh!t when they were new. One poster way back talked of having die boxes with mixed pieces in them. That is probably where your journey is taking you. A Chev front end, Chrysler doors, Ford rear end, Toyota roof etc. Good luck.
So should I just use expander ball on my redding FL bushing die, or remove expander ball and not touch neck id, or use mandrel for ID AFTER FL sizing, or get a lee collet die made for 6.5creedmoor? Never used any of these methods. Always used std FL sizer with expander ball. Thanks for your help.
