I hear what you are saying. However in the video you say the guy running the 260 is 20k over pressure? Hornady lists 3150 with a 26" barrel and R 26 with their 143 eldx in 6.5 prc. How much faster should a prc be than a creed? 200 fps,400 fps? Quickload predicts 3000 fps in a 26" with a 140 eldm at 63091k. Now that is hot and pushing it. But 2900 is certainly doable while still being under saami max pressure dont you think. The general belief is that the burn rate and pressure curve of R 26 allows it to produce more velocity at a lower peak pressure. This is not an unknown or uncommon occurence with powders. I do believe that the creed from my experience performs better in the 2750 ish range for pure accuracy. But for a hunter looking to maximize performance on game if you can squeeze another 150 fps out of the round it may be worth it if it can be done safely.That would put the prc at 250 fps faster according to Hornadys data online. I think that is reasonable.
Learn To Maximize Your 6.5 Creedmoor Potential
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As for ammo and powder companies using software like quickload for load development it's more common than you think. I have a buddy who is a senior ballistics tech at a major bullet company. I was under the impression that all published data was pressure tested. He told me that for powder companies yes pretty much but not bullet makers.
38 minutes+...not a chance.
Cliff Notes please...
No, not that I recall. That figure was speaking in generalities to the data I see people advertising regularly. It is often 20k-30k over pressure.
Oh I'm well aware that the "half moa all day" crowd just loves the stuff. In my testing, RL26 hit 3107fps with a 140EH before I hit pressure. Guess what? H4831SC hit 3130fps. I've repeatedly seen this with 6.5 PRC's. H4831SC rivals, or often beats RL26 on velocity... and the H4831SC universally shoots better and is more stable across the life of the barrel.
Look at the data, most of which I collected while streaming live on youtube. Look at how many times RL26 is beat by H4831SC. Look at how many times N560 and N565 is right there with it. Look at the velocities I'm reporting pressure at, compared to the loads you see people claiming around here all the time.
From an accuracy and precision standpoint, I do not use Alliant powders in virtually anything. This RL26 magic pixie dust myth is very often being pushed by people that have not tried anything else, or at least haven't tried much else. They CERTAINLY have not been comparing performance on target. It's very likely they haven't been comparing bore stability, precision and accuracy stability across a long string of fire, resilience to adverse conditions, or how many rounds can be fired while maintaining accuracy and precision before cleaning is required.
Let me make this as clear as I can. In every rifle, with every cartridge, with every barrel... literally everything I've tested... Hodgdon and Vihtavuori produce the best accuracy and precision. (and most often velocity too) Not once have I had an Alliant powder beat them in testing on the target.
So Kyle will be happy that I am not eating up his RL powder supply.
It's not worth it, and it can't be done safely. Look at the AB mobile example I showed at the tail end of the video. 100fps extra velocity equals about 75ft lbs of energy on the 1000yd firing solution I was using as an example. Barely a tenth of a mil of wind difference from 2.0 mils of wind at the "slow" velocity. Is that really worth being on the ragged edge of pressure, then having some rain or melted snow get into your chamber and grenade your gun? Lock your bolt shut on the first round fired? Cause you to miss as a result of wild POI shift due to massive overpressure? Pierce a primer, welding your firing pin to your bolt body? Pierce a primer and put a jet of hot gas and metal into your eye that's conveniently sitting behind your bolt shroud/cocking piece pathway? THAT is why it can't be done safely, because all that's required for a severely negative result is for mother nature or other variables to intercede at an inopportune time. Then, kaboom.
Kyle isn't responsible. Kyle lives on the edge. Kyle doesn't care about anything.
The way I do things and recommend others do things was born from over 30 years of handloading experience and over 15 years of advising shooters professionally. What I recommend is designed to set a shooter up for the best chance of things going right all the time, every time, with as much room for error as possible. It takes a tremendous amount of time, effort, and money to get the kind of experience required to make those recommendations possible.
This next bit isn't pointed directly at you @cajun
I certainly do not have any obligation to defend against or debate with idiotic anonymous internet personalities with comparatively zero experience.
Kyle doesn't need any experience. All he has to do is read the internet.
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I have a question and I called Sig to verify barrel length before posting. I quizzed the tech and he says that while it would be possible, it was unlikely. I was curious about Sig's tipped controlled expansion ammo, having seen a reference that the bullets are Sierra Tipped Match King.
Would you consider these results atypical? Are they within an acceptable window? There is so much about this scenario I don't understand, but I know that individual rifles will produce individual results. Are these companies being conservative? If so, wouldn't that lead the Kyle's of YT down a misguided path?
Found this posted on YouTube
Poster using a 22" barrel Savage 116 says his 5 shot average is 2918fps, for the record he shows all 5 chronograph readings "live" during the video. His lowest velocity was 2901fps and the highest was 2934fps.
Sig says that a 24" barrel should produce a velocity of 2850fps I borrowed the box pics from Rokslide.
Would you consider these results atypical? Are they within an acceptable window? There is so much about this scenario I don't understand, but I know that individual rifles will produce individual results. Are these companies being conservative? If so, wouldn't that lead the Kyle's of YT down a misguided path?
Found this posted on YouTube
Poster using a 22" barrel Savage 116 says his 5 shot average is 2918fps, for the record he shows all 5 chronograph readings "live" during the video. His lowest velocity was 2901fps and the highest was 2934fps.
Sig says that a 24" barrel should produce a velocity of 2850fps I borrowed the box pics from Rokslide.
130gr can be pushed quite a lot faster than the 140's.
Different bullet... different results. That, and factory ammo is typically loaded pretty hot in order to be competitive against other companies offerings, and they make no distinction of how many firings you'll be able to get on the brass after you fire it the first time. I've had some hornady ammo that wouldn't hold a primer after its virgin firing.
Has anyone tried reloader 17 in a long barreled 6.5 Creedmoor, with 120 to 130 grain bullets?
The readout on the chronograph will make you question your eyesight.
The readout on the chronograph will make you question your eyesight.
Thanks, for the record, I wasn't arguing with you, I was questioning the published versus actual velocity of this particular ammunition.
Seems being conservative with is just as bad as embellishing the facts. Makes it hard for a non-reloader to get a clear picture.
Which is why I emphasize the value of experience every opportunity I get.
There is so much stupidity on this forum, every other forum, and every social space every day that it is impossible to have the slightest clue what is going on without a tremendous amount of individual testing and experience. Think of how many powder/bullet/primer/brass combinations there are out there! I'm blessed to say that I can shoot more than anyone I know, and I'm still absolutely dumbfounded by how much is out there. There are FAR more combinations out there than I have worked with.
So if someone wants to know, and I mean really KNOW the real truth... it can not be attained any other way than personal experience, and a lot of it.
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The main reason I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor was plentiful ammo and quite a variety. I have plenty of pigs to test them on, I just wish I had more time.
Stop wishing for it. Pray about it, and start making decisions that let you spend more time on things you would like to.
How much longer you think you have to start living the life you want?
6.5 Creedmoor is a great cartridge. So useful for so many things. It's extreme popularity among new inexperienced shooters leads to it's capabilities being misrepresented more regularly than most.
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Stop wishing for it. Pray about it, and start making decisions that let you spend more time on things you would like to.
How much longer you think you have to start living the life you want?
6.5 Creedmoor is a great cartridge. So useful for so many things. It's extreme popularity among new inexperienced shooters leads to it's capabilities being misrepresented more regularly than most.
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You tell my oncologist and I can make the rest happen.
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Man that sucks. I'll be praying for you.
You know, precision rifle shooting is great at keeping your spirits up, and being happy is essential to healing your body! Tell him I said so!
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I've chrono'd a bunch of factory ammo. It's often well below its posted velocity. Only had one that matched - Hornady 147 ELD-M...
