Larger diameter bullets allow more room for error?

[Milepost]

Or could you trade in your 6.5 saum for a 6.5-300 wby and kill elk out to 990 with a 6.5 bullet?

To get 1500 ft/lbs of energy from a 140gr VLD at 990 yards it would have to exit the barrel at 3750 FPS!! Yeah, show me a cartridge that can do that or a lead core bullet that doesn't blow up right after it leaves the barrel!

So even if you could go on your elk hunt with a 6.5 rifle that could even do that. Let's say a really nice elk is at 100-200 yards. That 140 VLD will just blow up as soon it makes contact injuring but not killing. Sounds like you want one gun to do it all to me. It just don't work that way.

 

[26Reload]

Dangerous game animals have a much higher KO factor/index than similar weight deer species

Hate to burst your bubble on this one....the same old man that has the 300 whisper ran trap lines in Montana in his years after being in Vietnam...one day he turned a corner and found a half eaten critter in his trap..heard a noise..drew his pistol and shot that grizzly at 10'......his carry pistol....a 22 magnum......one shot in the head killed that bear.....how much KO power does that 22 magnum have.....
people in Africa killed elephants with their little bows and arrows for a long time...and spears...happened here with bison and wooly mammoth
..obviously there wasn't much kinetic energy or speed to those weapons...wounding was the idea...bleed it out while chasing it back towards camp......
Shot placement and cool train of thought killed that bear.....i wouldnt have so lucky......would have crapped my shorts and hopefully chased the bear away from the smell.....

 

[Milepost]

And 300y was considered a long shot.

Yep!! I remember when a 400 yard shot with 280 AI was considered risky!

Time marches on. Improvements in powder, brass, bullets, optics, etc just make these all the better and let's not forget the ubiquitous 300 WM dating back from 1963.

 

[.300H&H]

All things being equal. .308 cal is a 16.7% increase in frontal area over a .264 cal. This would translate into a 16.7% larger wound channel. Not a wound channel that is .044" larger in dia.

And depending on bullet weight, up to 50% more fragmentation which in essence increases wound channel greatly. Can turn a straight liver shot into a liver/lung shot in a hurry, which I've found desirable.

 

[FIGJAM]

To get 1500 ft/lbs of energy from a 140gr VLD at 990 yards it would have to exit the barrel at 3750 FPS!! Yeah, show me a cartridge that can do that or a lead core bullet that doesn't blow up right after it leaves the barrel!

So even if you could go on your elk hunt with a 6.5 rifle that could even do that. Let's say a really nice elk is at 100-200 yards. That 140 VLD will just blow up as soon it makes contact injuring but not killing. Sounds like you want one gun to do it all to me. It just don't work that way.

Your assumptions in the calculator might be different than mine, but I get close with a 140gr berger going 3315. See the table below. That was just some factory load in the strelok app for the 6.5-300 wby

 

[FIGJAM]

To get 1500 ft/lbs of energy from a 140gr VLD at 990 yards it would have to exit the barrel at 3750 FPS!! Yeah, show me a cartridge that can do that or a lead core bullet that doesn't blow up right after it leaves the barrel!

So even if you could go on your elk hunt with a 6.5 rifle that could even do that. Let's say a really nice elk is at 100-200 yards. That 140 VLD will just blow up as soon it makes contact injuring but not killing. Sounds like you want one gun to do it all to me. It just don't work that way.

If we move to a 26 Nosler and use Nosler's factory recipe with the 142gr ABLR at 3300 fps its hits 1500 ft lbs of energy at 1000 yards.

 

[26Reload]

Figjam.....i wouldn't rely on that 3300fps listing for their factory load...while i was working up loads for my Nosler Patriot my chrome caught their factory at 3200fps...my handloads shot better at 3200 than their factory...but I was able to load them up to and over 3300 but one shot deal..as primer pockets blew out.....

 

[DJ Fergus]

Every one has their own opinion of what works. I hunt whitetail so it really doesn't take ultra performance to kill those. At any rate, I prefer long heavy for caliber high b.c bullets that have lead on the softer end of the spectrum. I have taken side cutters and cut bullets in half just to get an idea of how hard the lead was and how thick the jacket was. There is a good bit of difference from different styles of each even among the same brand. What does a person want? Absolute pentration like a Barnes or ultimate fragmentation like a berger or something in between. All of those styles can be used successfully. I have used all of those with an intended purpose but I really feel like there can be a compromise with all of them dependant on the situation. So as I stated earlier, right now for my purposes long, heavy for caliber high b.c. bullets that's a little soft is the least amount of compromise for my style of hunting & allow me the most margin for error. Different strokes for different folks. I've shot deer with all different calibers & bullets, if you do that enough then you will find what works the best for you. Then you get tired of what works best for you and will want to find something that works better and the cycle continues, lol.

 

[FIGJAM]

Figjam.....i wouldn't rely on that 3300fps listing for their factory load...while i was working up loads for my Nosler Patriot my chrome caught their factory at 3200fps...my handloads shot better at 3200 than their factory...but I was able to load them up to and over 3300 but one shot deal..as primer pockets blew out.....

I don't own one, so I was just using whatever data was imported into strelok pro.

 

[FIGJAM]

Figjam.....i wouldn't rely on that 3300fps listing for their factory load...while i was working up loads for my Nosler Patriot my chrome caught their factory at 3200fps...my handloads shot better at 3200 than their factory...but I was able to load them up to and over 3300 but one shot deal..as primer pockets blew out.....

If the 26 Nosler can't reach 3300 fps without blowing out primer pockets I am probably losing a little interest in the cartridge.

 

[Capt RB]

It also assumes that the bc for the 142lrab is higher than the 147 which it isn't even close for the conversation.
I know you can run the 147 At 3400 in the 6.5/300wby. It will run a bit higher actually. 15moa to 1k and 1511# @980 1481@1000yds using my basic conditions which sea level and cold. What happens when it hits something is an entirely different conversation I hope to see over the winter. This is not my rifle but I am doing some work up for him.

 

[Milepost]

Hate to burst your bubble on this one....the same old man that has the 300 whisper ran trap lines in Montana in his years after being in Vietnam...one day he turned a corner and found a half eaten critter in his trap..heard a noise..drew his pistol and shot that grizzly at 10'......his carry pistol....a 22 magnum......one shot in the head killed that bear.....how much KO power does that 22 magnum have.....
people in Africa killed elephants with their little bows and arrows for a long time...and spears...happened here with bison and wooly mammoth
..obviously there wasn't much kinetic energy or speed to those weapons...wounding was the idea...bleed it out while chasing it back towards camp......
Shot placement and cool train of thought killed that bear.....i wouldnt have so lucky......would have crapped my shorts and hopefully chased the bear away from the smell.....

So if he knew that he would be face to face with a grizzly that day do you think he wouldn't have carried something a little bit bigger?

As they say sometimes it's good to lucky. Skill and a cool head prevailed here.
There are plenty of stories of people shooting Cape Buffalo or grizzlies with multiple hits and the animal just keeps on coming and these stories come from professional hunters.

BTW ...I would be crapping in my pants too! under the same circumstances.

Yes, In primitive times they hunted with bows and arrows and spears. They hunted these large animals in groups like wolves in a pack. Some used dogs to keep game at bay. Indians drove Bison off cliffs. There was plenty of smaller game and fish too, big and small to hunt. But did you ever think how many hunters died or were injured in those early hunts... Human population was in the millions back then for a reason.. Sometimes we were the hunter and sometimes the hunted.

If I should go hunting dangerous game or live somewhere were we are not on the top of the food chain. I will always take take the option of a bigger gun..I like having options.

 

[26Reload]

I am sure others are getting better fps....i was using 79gr of rl33...had to drop back to 75gr to keep brass for three firings....
Want to figure out if rl26 will yield better fps and lenghten brass life....
Really intrigued with info here.....so much more promise tban a lot of other debates.....

 

[CA48]

If we move to a 26 Nosler and use Nosler's factory recipe with the 142gr ABLR at 3300 fps its hits 1500 ft lbs of energy at 1000 yards.

I have to use 3600 fps with a 140 Berger to get 1500lbs at 1000 yards which has a higher bc than the accu bond. DA 3500ft

Despite all the evidence and results presented to you from some experienced members who have shot over 100 elk you still want to believe the 6.5 can effectively harvest elk at 1000yds like a .30 cal can even though the energy is more like 950lbs at 1000yards with the 6.5

If you want a big 6.5 that bad get one. I wanted one myself and its works great for the proper application. You hear about guys dropping elk with a 6.5 at 1000 yards often now days with a spine or high lung shot. But you only hear the success story's, not when things go wrong, because if someone posted a long range fail with a 6.5 they would be attacked and told "shame on you".

I think a 6.5 going 3300fps can kill an elk effectively when put in the vitals but I prefer not to use mine for elk that far when I have better options. Its risky, you have no insurance if you hit a little far back in the stomach or to far forward in the shoulder and that elk will run for a long ways.