Land ownership timeline? (BLM to private)

[Airedale56]

Thanks for elaborating a bit.
I get it much better now how you got to where you are about cattle on public land.

There will always be persons who push the limits/rules/boundaries of life and law to get ahead or just are challenged to color outside the lines to see if anyone is going to stop them.
No doubt that some exist in every facet of our lives, we can all likely name someone right now.

I encourage you to bring your observations to the proper authorities to determine if voluntary compliance is working or correction is required. Your voice could be the one that’s needed to start the ball rolling. You have US Congressmen and women and Senators. Bring your issue to them. They have staff who can research the rules and regulations for BLM and US Forest Service grazing allotments. The elected officials can make inquiries if you have specific complaints, such as dates, times, locations and maybe even photographs and GPS coordinates to aid the investigation of your complaint.

Keep in mind though that the folks you have issues with also have same Representatives and Senators you do.

I’m not saying that the above description is fitting for the folks you described. They have their own beliefs and values and experiences that may conflict with yours. They surely have their own opinions about “why” they are doing what you observed. And, they may be totally “legal” in all of it.

Some research on the rules and regulations in existence may be in order. You may discover that some are archaic and need some updating as times change. Be patient and persistent.

I spent seven years working on getting a state law changed. It took time, slow steady effort, lobbying some legislators and getting industry names involvement to change a law that was passed in the early 1920s and was finally updated in 2013.

It did not happen quickly. Once I got the discussion started, I stepped back and involved others who had more influence and power take over the charge to change the law.

There was a LOT of pushback from the state agency which enforced that law. We were told that it had “…always been this way.”
Well, if one was born after the law was codified, that was true.

Legislative opinion changed when they became aware of reasoned arguments for updating a very outdated, unconstitutionally vague law.

The end result was worth it.

If you really believe it needs change, be the change.
Step up.


Good luck to you.

 

[ncwg2boatguy]

Its now owned by foreign investors

 

[msauce1]

I would like to know if there is a process that the BLM has to follow where one can find out when and where public land is going to be sold. Is there a hearing or a comment period? Where I live in Central Oregon a BLM trailhead to the Deschutes river ended up in a persons driveway and the sign was removed. Now you have to overland it to get to the river with GPS to stay on BLM and not get a trespassing ticket.

 

[JakeC]

I would like to know if there is a process that the BLM has to follow where one can find out when and where public land is going to be sold. Is there a hearing or a comment period? Where I live in Central Oregon a BLM trailhead to the Deschutes river ended up in a persons driveway and the sign was removed. Now you have to overland it to get to the river with GPS to stay on BLM and not get a trespassing ticket.

there probably is but it's most likely a notice in a print newspaper or some godforsaken token like that. That's miserable. I grew up where there was no public land and that was normal. Someone would buy a property, kill the easement, put hazards in the trails. Similar to the ranchers, landlock an entire popular mountain by buying a few acres from the paper company.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

Land swaps are pretty common on BLM land. I doubt it was sold, more likely “swapped.” Why don’t you call the local office and ask them?

 

[Noobie]

Thanks for elaborating a bit.
I get it much better now how you got to where you are about cattle on public land.

There will always be persons who push the limits/rules/boundaries of life and law to get ahead or just are challenged to color outside the lines to see if anyone is going to stop them.
No doubt that some exist in every facet of our lives, we can all likely name someone right now.

I encourage you to bring your observations to the proper authorities to determine if voluntary compliance is working or correction is required. Your voice could be the one that's needed to start the ball rolling. You have US Congressmen and women and Senators. Bring your issue to them. They have staff who can research the rules and regulations for BLM and US Forest Service grazing allotments. The elected officials can make inquiries if you have specific complaints, such as dates, times, locations and maybe even photographs and GPS coordinates to aid the investigation of your complaint.

Keep in mind though that the folks you have issues with also have same Representatives and Senators you do.

I'm not saying that the above description is fitting for the folks you described. They have their own beliefs and values and experiences that may conflict with yours. They surely have their own opinions about "why" they are doing what you observed. And, they may be totally "legal" in all of it.

Some research on the rules and regulations in existence may be in order. You may discover that some are archaic and need some updating as times change. Be patient and persistent.

I spent seven years working on getting a state law changed. It took time, slow steady effort, lobbying some legislators and getting industry names involvement to change a law that was passed in the early 1920s and was finally updated in 2013.

It did not happen quickly. Once I got the discussion started, I stepped back and involved others who had more influence and power take over the charge to change the law.

There was a LOT of pushback from the state agency which enforced that law. We were told that it had "…always been this way."
Well, if one was born after the law was codified, that was true.

Legislative opinion changed when they became aware of reasoned arguments for updating a very outdated, unconstitutionally vague law.

The end result was worth it.

If you really believe it needs change, be the change.
Step up.


Good luck to you.

Thanks for the detailed response. Here is a bit more info:
The cattlemen are now complaining that hunters don't always close the gates behind them. Thus they are lobbying to close most of the dirt roads to hunters!!! Currently most of the gates are barbed wire with a latching type thingy that are easy enough to close, but there are a lot of people who won't, not necessarily hunters. They rent ATV's everywhere in the BH and my guess is that some tourists can be clueless and irresponsible. My humble opinion is that if they want to graze cattle on our land and don't want them to wander off, they should put in regular cattle guards. I'm guessing it isn't just the Black Hills NF, probably coming to a forest near you.
Most of the Black Hills Forest is either covered with Pine, where there is no forage for grazers (Elk and Cattle), dead Pine (pine beetles), very steep terrain, and bare, completely burnt out areas. This concentrates the grazers in small pockets of meadows. Thus, although there may be 'formulas' for cattle/sq. mile, they don't really work here.
One positive thing is that they have opened up the forest to extensive logging operations since the pine trees are going to die anyway. This is creating patchworks of clear areas, typically land flat enough for logging trucks, that will provide more grazing area. They just grab the smaller trees with a track hoe and use a hydraulic blade to cut them, strip the limbs, and stack them. The downside to this for hunters is that grassy meadows are not yet established and the areas are completely taken over by poison ivy, which is bad for most people. Deer and elk, however, apparently love eating the stuff. The cattle graze these meadows for new grasses, but don't eat the poison ivy. I am thinking the loggers should be required to seed the clearcuts, doesn't cost much for sacks of native seed. Our conservation district on the east side gives out free native seeds to farmers to plant in swampy areas and land leased by the DNR, so they might provide seed to the loggers.

 

[Airedale56]

Cattle guards sound like an easy fix to the gate issue, there may be federal regulations that impact that option.

The Black Hills in Crook County, WY have some gorgeous features. I lived nearby and worked there in 1999-2000.

 

[JakeC]

Land swaps are pretty common on BLM land. I doubt it was sold, more likely "swapped." Why don't you call the local office and ask them?

SO they traded 1500 acres of worthless sage scattered in small chunks all over the West that had come from railroad holdings way back for three gorgeous mountaintops overlooking the great salt lake with graded access just 5 miles off I80. Or they traded landlocked acreage they bought for nothing at auction from state trusts, that the state got transferred from BLM but then had to sell because they mysteriously turned out to be unprofitable.

I guess I'm failing to see the distinction.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

SO they traded 1500 acres of worthless sage scattered in small chunks all over the West that had come from railroad holdings way back for three gorgeous mountaintops overlooking the great salt lake with graded access just 5 miles off I80. Or they traded landlocked acreage they bought for nothing at auction from state trusts, that the state got transferred from BLM but then had to sell because they mysteriously turned out to be unprofitable.

I guess I'm failing to see the distinction.

Well, you can pee down your leg about it if you want. I'm just stating fact. The BLM land swaps to accommodate industry more than other agencies. The Forest Service does it as well, but not near as much. If you don't like it, take it up with them. You can get involved when these agencies do things. Why don't we log on fed ground anymore…enviros said enough and shut them down in the courts.

 

[Buffalobwana]

At the same time the Chinese have been fishing illegally wherever they can get away with it, meanwhile bullying small countries out of their own territorial waters with naval vessels.

China is a plague on the earth. Everywhere they step, death and destruction follows. I'm not talking about individual Chinese people, I mean the CCP. Everything is owned by the ccp.

In Costa Rica, I watched Chinese fishing vessels purse sane for Tuna. You think they threw the dolphins out? No way. Meat is meat.

In Africa, I have witnessed the destruction in Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Tanzania and Zambia. I know it goes on all over the continent, but I have seen the "before and after" in these countries.

They are the reason Elephant are so difficult or impossible to import now from certain countries. They poached them so heavily, their numbers have suffered in some of the areas I have been. Not all, but noticeable decline in numbers in areas.

They get mining contracts and send in their guys to buy ivory. Locals poach them and the bosses at the mines pay off the local officials, pay the poachers $100-$200/kilo and ship 40' containers full of tusks back to China. (Last I heard, could be more or less $ now).

I have no love for that country and what they are doing to the earth.

I have seen a village, very far from civilization (8-10 hours) with a cell phone tower. You see loads of 50cc crappy Chinese motorcycles and every military aged male has a cell phone.

How can you mount an effective anti poaching campaign with this type of resistance? You can’t.

 

[Timinator]

Go in with some buddies and get a few acres in southern Ohio. Put a little trailer on it and shoot more deer and turkeys any time you want.

 

[lobster]

I'm not finding much luck yet looking this up, but does anyone know of a relatively quick way to tell when BLM land was transferred to private? While looking at Onx for another reason, I noticed that a relatively popular, accessible chukar/shooting/scenic area I frequent is now private. I don't know why I want to know when, it's not going to change anything, but I'm just a little chapped. Especially because I was there so recently using OnX to find my sunglasses, lol.

Anyway, it's exasperating. Another unique location has been transferred from public ownership to a private entity. Along with the guzzlers and the roads built by the public. Even more cynically: this purchase happens to coincide with an increase on reporting on the magnesium factory bordering this parcel, and that reporting that is being led by a news organization owned by the same private entity as the land purchase. Is the plant bad? Oh yes. But it's been a menace for decades and suddenly we're seeing it in the news and public discussion at the same time that developers are almost out of especially scenic property to develop near SLC.

I'm no anti-capitalist, but it drives me deeply crazy that we have politicians running on the merits of "transferring of land from bureaucrats to local management" (actual current political ad) when all that means is "taking land away from the local users and letting the wealthy own it."

 

[lobster]

I'm not finding much luck yet looking this up, but does anyone know of a relatively quick way to tell when BLM land was transferred to private? While looking at Onx for another reason, I noticed that a relatively popular, accessible chukar/shooting/scenic area I frequent is now private. I don't know why I want to know when, it's not going to change anything, but I'm just a little chapped. Especially because I was there so recently using OnX to find my sunglasses, lol.

Anyway, it's exasperating. Another unique location has been transferred from public ownership to a private entity. Along with the guzzlers and the roads built by the public. Even more cynically: this purchase happens to coincide with an increase on reporting on the magnesium factory bordering this parcel, and that reporting that is being led by a news organization owned by the same private entity as the land purchase. Is the plant bad? Oh yes. But it's been a menace for decades and suddenly we're seeing it in the news and public discussion at the same time that developers are almost out of especially scenic property to develop near SLC.

I'm no anti-capitalist, but it drives me deeply crazy that we have politicians running on the merits of "transferring of land from bureaucrats to local management" (actual current political ad) when all that means is "taking land away from the local users and letting the wealthy own it."

The same thing is starting to happen here in Nevada. Public land is being turned over to private entities. This trend is very alarming.

 

[rewvdw]

Well there is a difference between land ownership and land use.
For example, mining claims have typically been allowed on public lands. At a time when elements for semiconductors, rare earth magnets and similar that are critical for military and industrial supply chain security, these mining claims have been banned by the feds - even after approval from the states. Other countries, especially adversarial ones with far fewer or even zero environmental safeguards have already developed monopolies both domestically and in third world countries.
Oil and gas leases have also been essentially shut off nationwide, resulting in our dependence on hostile nations for fuel. At the same time our strategic petroleum reserve has been bled down to nothing in order to somewhat stem the inevitable price increases in an effort to buy votes at the expense of our security.
At the same time the Chinese have been fishing illegally wherever they can get away with it, meanwhile bullying small countries out of their own territorial waters with naval vessels.
Forestry management in certain states has also been an unmitigated disaster. Banning selective logging and controlled burns in the name of ecology or something results in vast amounts of undergrowth and dense timber and brush. Then when lightning or powerlines inevitably cause fires, they burn uncontrollably and so hot that they burn down even to the roots. Then when it rains there are rock and mudslides that wipe out roads, houses and etc. leaving a wasteland with no habitat for wildlife. In places like Europe and Japan they have managed the forests for centuries, unlike our modern 'enlightened' eco 'scientists'.
They really believe that humans are an invasive species to be eradicated whilst protecting endangered cockroaches or whatever.
On the other hand the number of cattle allowed to graze on BLM and National Forest lands is obscene, and, coincidentally, profitable. You can't even pitch a tent in most meadows without clearing half a dozen cow pies. The numbers must be reduced substantially IMHO.