jimd46902
Member
Well, the truth as I see it is... it is all related and one causes the other... which happens first is a moot point.
Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman
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Twodogs10mm
Well-Known Member
I will say there is something to energy dump. I once shot a nice 3x3 blacktail with my 7mm rem mag, he was downhill more than quarterting away at about 100 yds. I placed my shot behind his ribs, which should have placed the exit wound just in front of his off shoulder. The 168gr sierra matchking @aprox 3150fps dropped him right there.
When I looked him over I could not find either an entry wound or exit wound?
When Gutting him there was no damage at all to any internal organs? his lungs, heart and liver were all intact?
After further inspection there was a blood shot line about 1" wide on the inside of his rib cage, later after skinning I found the jacket of the bullet under the hide between his neck and front shoulder. The bullet had hit all his ribs except one, it never entered the rib cage or exited. Yet he dropped on the spot. No blood loss, no hemorrhage.
Just shock I guess? I always wonder why he didn't wake up while I was gutting him out.
When I looked him over I could not find either an entry wound or exit wound?
When Gutting him there was no damage at all to any internal organs? his lungs, heart and liver were all intact?
After further inspection there was a blood shot line about 1" wide on the inside of his rib cage, later after skinning I found the jacket of the bullet under the hide between his neck and front shoulder. The bullet had hit all his ribs except one, it never entered the rib cage or exited. Yet he dropped on the spot. No blood loss, no hemorrhage.
Just shock I guess? I always wonder why he didn't wake up while I was gutting him out.
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CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
That bullet proves there was no magic bullet coming out of the School Book Depository...i.e.they can really go some strange places and angles.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
It's a complicated physics, and anatomy physiology question. Out of x amount of kills 1 really strange one leaves a person struggling to figure what happened. If you're the guy standing there in disbelief it shapes your thinking one way, if you're the guy it's always gone right for, your view is somebody is full of it when you hear the story. I wish I knew how to post the link, but I was just looking at an xray photo of a teenager shot with a speargun through the head. Good caliber, not bad placement, exit wound. Granted he received medical care, but the report is it missed all the major vessels. If you google the news you'll find it. Stuff happens.
You missed the most important fact!
It was a teenager, not much in the skull to hit at that age, when he gets older there will be more thought processes going on and it would do some real damage
edge.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I thought about that actually, then decided it might have a hunting application to rutting bucks and bulls. Certain times of the year maybe we're shooting at the wrong end for maximum blood loss. Reports have the kid sitting up talking, complaining mostly of motor deficits on one side.You missed the most important fact!
It was a teenager, not much in the skull to hit at that age, when he gets older there will be more thought processes going on and it would do some real damage
edge.
CRaTxn
Well-Known Member
Been thinking about Edge's heart attack loss of blood pressure comment...I believe we do on rare occasions but can't really name the causal factors that aren't in and of themselves "the causal factor of death"...maybe when we send a bullet an inch off their nose or step on them in their bed...I do know it makes a difference whether you hit a deer in the heart while his heart in on the compression stroke (in which case the hydrostatic or hydraulic shock will blow the valves open and sometimes rupture the heart muscle itself BUT you can also put a bullet thru the heart when it is not under pressure and they will go long distances before death) I shot a Cape Buffalo thru the lower heart and we chased him for 2 & 1/2 hrs till I could shoot him in the neck/spine. Also shoot a black bear from above in a 30' tree stand down thru the ribs and blew 1/2 of his heart muscle out his sternum (375 H&H 300gr Silvertip exit hole was four inches in diameter) but he must have just taken a breath and oxygenated his brain because he went over 250 yards.
So, I will buy the statement"
"
I didn't think so, it is from the brain being deprived of O2.
A broadhead, bullet, electrical shock or a thousand other reasons can cause the heart to not beat.
A bullet obliterating the heart muscle will cause some blood loss, but not the 15% or more of your total supply needed to kill you.
While you will bleed out over time, you will be unconscious almost instantly because the brain can't work without a fresh supply of oxygenated blood.
Now you can cut off your arm and you will most likely remain conscious for a significant amount of time...at least compared to the victim without a beating heart ie: blood pressure.
edge."
Yep, I after reconsidering all these valid arguments, there are lots of reasons for deer to not get O2 to the brain. I killed a deer caught in a fence with a blow to the brain with a tire iron...guess that turned the CNS signal off to the heart which in turn ...turned down the blood pressure...which cut off the O2 to the brain...gentlemen the more I think about this the more what jimd46902 said about "which happens first is a moot point" Good Summation jimd
So, I will buy the statement"
"
I didn't think so, it is from the brain being deprived of O2.
A broadhead, bullet, electrical shock or a thousand other reasons can cause the heart to not beat.
A bullet obliterating the heart muscle will cause some blood loss, but not the 15% or more of your total supply needed to kill you.
While you will bleed out over time, you will be unconscious almost instantly because the brain can't work without a fresh supply of oxygenated blood.
Now you can cut off your arm and you will most likely remain conscious for a significant amount of time...at least compared to the victim without a beating heart ie: blood pressure.
edge."
Yep, I after reconsidering all these valid arguments, there are lots of reasons for deer to not get O2 to the brain. I killed a deer caught in a fence with a blow to the brain with a tire iron...guess that turned the CNS signal off to the heart which in turn ...turned down the blood pressure...which cut off the O2 to the brain...gentlemen the more I think about this the more what jimd46902 said about "which happens first is a moot point" Good Summation jimd
I f anyone is interested, and I hope the site doesn't mind, but a guy here in NZ has dedicated a massive chunk of time and resources into studying terminal ballistics. The knowledge base covers a comprehensive range of bullets and calibres, and their effectiveness on a range of game.
See here Terminal Ballistics Research
See here Terminal Ballistics Research
