Keep the Sendero a 300 win mag or go 7mm rem mag ?

[SofaKing]

So you already have a 280 ackley which would really cover off most of your needs, deer and the wife, and somewhat close to the 7 mag. Stick with bullets up to 150 in the ackley for milder recoil (plus not sure what your twist is). I also have a 280 ackley and a 300 wm, I wanted enough seperation between cartridges to make it worth while.

I'd keep your sendero as is first but step up to the 215 berger and H1000 as jwall mentioned, but don't bother braking it in case you later change your mind. With a 10 twist you will stabilize the big bergers, I do with my 10 twist 26" mil spec remington. Get them around .020-.030 off and work up the H1000, they are stupid accurate. I haven't braked mine, just a limbsaver pad.

A few years back I ended up with two boxes of 210 Berger's. I've never used them yet after I heard all the rage about the 215's. I've contemplated getting some 215's for elk and 1000yd steel.

 

[MudRunner2005]

How fast do you think he will be able to push the 195's out of a 7mm Rem mag with a 26" barrel? From my quick search guys were getting around 2650fps with similar setups. So I took those numbers and compared to what people are seeing with a 300 win mag (I haven't chronoed mine) and the 215's through a 26" pipe, 2850 fps, and entered those numbers into Bergers calculator. The 215s beat the 195s until the 300 wm is down around 2700fps muzzle velocity. It was more or less a wash. I'm not trying to bet against the 7, I like your idea but to utilize that big bullet with a big BC, hes gonna have to get it moving out of a small case.

He should easily be able to get 2,850 or so with the 195's with the right powder.

 

[hometownhero]

26-28" 7/300

 

[ATH]

For antelope/deer, the 7 is fine. If elk is in the picture, I really recommend something with a 3 in front, especially if long range is in the equation. I've shot elk with a 300WM and 338 Edge at long range, and the difference was significant. For me, stepping down to a 7 is not an option.

Shorten the range under 600, I'll consider a 7mm Mag. Big tough animals in tough country, I don't want them traveling.

 

[MudRunner2005]

For antelope/deer, the 7 is fine. If elk is in the picture, I really recommend something with a 3 in front, especially if long range is in the equation. I've shot elk with a 300WM and 338 Edge at long range, and the difference was significant. For me, stepping down to a 7 is not an option.

Shorten the range under 600, I'll consider a 7mm Mag. Big tough animals in tough country, I don't want them traveling.

A guy on here dropped a moose in his tracks at 900+ with a 7mm RM. I'd say it's more than capable to drop an elk. Several guys on here have shot elks and dropped them with a 6.5 SS at 800+ yards.

I've seen animals shot with good placement at very close ranges, and they still ran. Animals run, it's what some do when they get shot. It doesn't matter how good the shot was, or how big the caliber bullet was that went through it, sometimes they still run, and run a ridiculous distance.

 

[FEENIX]

For antelope/deer, the 7 is fine. If elk is in the picture, I really recommend something with a 3 in front, especially if long range is in the equation. I've shot elk with a 300WM and 338 Edge at long range, and the difference was significant. For me, stepping down to a 7 is not an option.

Shorten the range under 600, I'll consider a 7mm Mag. Big tough animals in tough country, I don't want them traveling.

Agreed!

 

[FlGunner]

I have a sendero in 7mm Remington Magnum, extremely accurate and will kill anything I'm aiming at. Personally I'd keep the 300 win mag. Either one is gonna be capable, just the 300 to me is a lil more in the umph department when you're talking distance and big game. I do love my 7 but anything it can do, so can the 300. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[jlreff]

300 win mag. The bearing surface on the 7 bullets. Hard to drive a heavy 7 over 2800. In a 26 inch 300mag can do 2900 without pushing it hard. Go with a 9 twist 28 or 30 inch barrel. Also look at Barnes 200 l r x or hammer bullets. Too other good choices.

 

[MudRunner2005]

300 win mag. The bearing surface on the 7 bullets. Hard to drive a heavy 7 over 2800. In a 26 inch 300mag can do 2900 without pushing it hard. Go with a 9 twist 28 or 30 inch barrel. Also look at Barnes 200 l r x or hammer bullets. Too other good choices.

Ummm, no it's not. That's a load of disinformation. There's plnety of documented cases of guys having no issues shooting the 195 Bergers over 2,900 FPS in a 26" 7mmRM.

 

[jlreff]

I've done plenty of testing over the years with both. Your running high pressures at that velocity. The benign of the 300 is to throw big bullets fast. The 7 doesn't have as much capacity. The military went with the 300 and now 300 Norma so there is a good reason right there.

 

[FEENIX]

I've done plenty of testing over the years with both. Your running high pressures at that velocity. The benign of the 300 is to throw big bullets fast. The 7 doesn't have as much capacity. The military went with the 300 and now 300 Norma so there is a good reason right there.

LL! The US military (at least the R&D guys) historically favors the .308 cal (.308 Win, .30-06., .300 Win) over other calibers for it's intended purpose.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I've done plenty of testing over the years with both. Your running high pressures at that velocity. The benign of the 300 is to throw big bullets fast. The 7 doesn't have as much capacity. The military went with the 300 and now 300 Norma so there is a good reason right there.

Pressure is subjective to your particular rifle. As long as I have no major pressure signs, and I find an accuracy node, then I feel safe shooting it.

The 7mm bullets also don't weigh as much as their equal-BC .30 caliber counterparts, are smaller in diameter, and have less sectional density...Therefore, the 7mm's don't require as much powder to effectively push a bullet as the big .30's do. And speaking of over-pressure, I'd just call that part of the argument a wash, because most of the time you will be over-pressure if you are running a 210-215 grain .30 caliber bullet over 2,850 in a .300 WinMag. And the 7mm Berger 195 still has a higher BC than the .30 215 Hybrid.

Personally, I don't care what the military uses/has used for light infantry weapons and sniper rifles, that has no real basis in what I choose to buy. Do I own weapons in all these cartridges (other than the .300 Norma)? Yep, sure do. But whether the military uses/used them doesn't affect my outlook on them. The AMU also used to use the .300 Ackley (which I also have) listed as the .300 AMU in their 1K competitions, but they don't anymore. Does that mean it's outdated and I should build something else out of it?

 

[MudRunner2005]

LL! The US military (at least the R&D guys) historically favors the .308 cal (.308 Win, .30-06., .300 Win) over other calibers for it's intended purpose.

Exactly my point, Ed. For them, they've been dead-set on .30's since WWI, and they're not going to change anytime soon. They wouldn't even consider the 7mm RemMag as a viable option, despite how well it might could prove itself to be another viable cartridge alternative. So why should I worry about what the military uses as "good enough" reasoning for selecting one over the other?

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Exactly my point, Ed. For them, they've been dead-set on .30's since WWI, and they're not going to change anytime soon. They wouldn't even consider the 7mm RemMag as a viable option, despite how well it might could prove itself to be another viable cartridge alternative. So why should I worry about what the military uses as "good enough" reasoning for selecting one over the other?

I've heard rumour that they may actually start replacing the 308 with a 6.5mm of some sort. At least in a couple outfits. I'd be very suprisednif they changed from the 308 despite the 6.5mm cartridges benefits.