jamie eaton
Well-Known Member
They said inflation went up but it wasn't that bad because everyones wages went up . Well I have been in a trade for 34 years , my wages have not gone up and you can't hire anyone else to do my job.
Is this the end of Defiance? My pre23-beck action just went up in value.
- Thread starter RockyMtnUT
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So TRUE!
I applaud you for one of the few people that has work ethics and working.
People that have been working at their job for many years are not getting any increases in wages, the opposite is companies hiring new people for position at twice of what the position is worth just to get a "Body" to fill it. My recent stay in a Hospital there was probably 90% of the staff from the Janitorial to Neuro Surgeons from other countries.
Look at our Tech and Health Industry - these are great paying jobs. Who is filling these positions? People from other countries on visas. Natural US Citizens don't want to work.
Legal US Citizens don't want to work because of all the free handouts they are receiving and Stimulus (Vote Buying) packages that came out. On the other hand, Illegal Aliens are here working under the table for CASH not paying taxes and also getting government handouts. See but, the Illegals are smart and collect free government money and also work for CASH not like lazy US Citizens.
Our government created the WORST Labor Force in our Country's history.
To top everything else off we are back to importing everything instead of making it here.
I only hope and PRAY that Home Grown USA companies like DEFIANCE and their skilled employees can continue production, make a profit and try to keep prices where we as working people can afford it!
Ross1147
Well-Known Member
@DefianceMachine I currently own 3 of your actions. A deviant, AnTi and Rebel. I am not even a drop in a bucket for your profits. But, I feel like I represent the average Joe in your clientele. I have no hard feelings about the price increase or selling the business or trying to keep your doors open. I do know with the new prices though, I can no longer afford/or justify one of your actions. Only time will tell if this was the correct move for the company. Best of luck.
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We greatly appreciate that you have chosen us in the past, and we understand and are listening to your opinions on the matter now. All we can say is, we would rather have not had to take this course of action, and we are actively working to refine our operations with hopes to re-evaluate in the near future so we can again offer a more economical choice for our customers, both future and past.
My #45 response has not changed. Defiance Machine has to make tough business choices for sustainability and survivability. The consumers will also need to make the necessary adjustments in their decision-making as to which actions they are willing and able to support.
I truly appreciate and applaud Defiance for airing a few things out and not going on the complete defense from comments. True business owners who are successful constantly deal with situations weekly. Best advice I received from a successful business owner who retired in his late eighties, "if you let your customers/clients dictate your pricing, you won't be in business very long".
RockyMtnUT
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is dictating anything. Same could be said for the saying "the customers always right"
. There are just better options at this point now that they have chosen to stick with that pricing. Actually there were better values before this point.They priced them selves out of the market and unless many others suddenly raise theirs, then it will be a hard times ahead unless they lean manufacture and cut prices more inline with others is my guess. Who knows.
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I wish them well and I hope they made the right decision for the future of their company. I have no advantage to them going out of business, and would very much like my action maker to be around in the future for any issues that may arise on my rifle.
That said, when I look at the market I can't imagine why any person in their right mind would ever spend 1600$ on a tenacity. No coating on a raw chromoly bolt, no swappable bolt heads, almost impossible to get a separate bolt, no integral rail, and a bolt handle design that hits any scope ocular bell lower than the moon.
Again, I have one and another ordered. It's faults were more than forgivable imo when it was one of the most affordable customs on the planet, but as almost/one of the most expensive tactical actions on the planet they are not.
That said, when I look at the market I can't imagine why any person in their right mind would ever spend 1600$ on a tenacity. No coating on a raw chromoly bolt, no swappable bolt heads, almost impossible to get a separate bolt, no integral rail, and a bolt handle design that hits any scope ocular bell lower than the moon.
Again, I have one and another ordered. It's faults were more than forgivable imo when it was one of the most affordable customs on the planet, but as almost/one of the most expensive tactical actions on the planet they are not.
Rhovee
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2017
- Messages
- 1,597
A couple things that I am curious about, but not expecting to be answered. When a company is purchased, EBITA ( earnings before interest and amortization) is evaluated. This is a easy formula to see the valuation of the company. Bigger the company lower the value typically because of volume. Someone wouldn't purchase a company without knowing this. I am sure interest increase have been a big hurt for equipment along with material increase, But an average 35 percent increase would be a very fast turn around for a business. Defiance must of been losing a substantial amount of money every month for a long time to justify an increase like that. I would suspect a business of that size would shoot for a 8-12 percent net profit.
I own a business and did an increase of 25 percent of sales. But made less money than last year. Material increase are extremely hard to keep up on for miscellaneous parts. Labor is up. Etc. So I get it. For me, a 10 percent increase would be striking gold. Defiance makes a great product and I own some of there actions and greatly value them. I totally understand if someone needs to raise prices to stay in business. Things must of been worse than most of us think. We have see barrel companies go from $340 to $410 in the last 2 years. (Bartlein), but haven't seen anything from Defiance since Covid hit.
I own a business and did an increase of 25 percent of sales. But made less money than last year. Material increase are extremely hard to keep up on for miscellaneous parts. Labor is up. Etc. So I get it. For me, a 10 percent increase would be striking gold. Defiance makes a great product and I own some of there actions and greatly value them. I totally understand if someone needs to raise prices to stay in business. Things must of been worse than most of us think. We have see barrel companies go from $340 to $410 in the last 2 years. (Bartlein), but haven't seen anything from Defiance since Covid hit.
Well, I mean technically Len has a hard post about price complaining in the classifieds, a lot of you are doing just that with regard to Defiance. Don't buy them, simple enough! You do have to wonder why the best builders use and build off their actions at any price point.
American Rifle Company Gen 2 Nucleus -$999
You, Sir, are correct. No one is forcing anyone to buy a product. That's the beauty of having choices; everybody is free to shop for what they are willing and able to support. It is that simple. @DefianceMachine, a site Sponsor, already acknowledges people's concern about the price increase, we might not like it, but it is time to move on.
@DefianceMachine BTW, I am happy with my Anti-X action. Good luck!
Ed
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Justice1327
Well-Known Member
Understood, but this isnt in the classified section.
I do not think Len's post was confined strictly to the classified ads section. @DefianceMachine is a site sponsor, and I do remember any advertisement in the Classified ads section.
What I got from Len's post is: "if you don't like the price, do not buy."
