I have a true story about that. So, through some family connections, my friend agreed to take two guys from Maine into our elk camp. We were tagged out. They were in their late 80s, and said they couldn't walk much, and didn't expect to get an elk but wanted to go camp. Yep, buffalo plaid, Main Hunting Shoes (and a pox on Bean's for changing the name), and well-used 30/30s. The ride in for them was spectacular, and my buddy said they were just as happy as clams. Dumped a couple of feet of snow, so they sat around the tent, sipping whiskey and playing cards. Near the end of the trip, one of the guys went outside to take a leak, and there was a group of elk 80 or so yards away (not uncommon back then; we had a large hay supply and they would munch on it when we were not in camp even though it was suspended). They eased out of the tent, and dropped a cow and a raghorn. They went wild, and I'm sure that story was told many a time.
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Is the 6.5 creedmoor the new 30/30?
- Thread starter startrek1761d
- Start date
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Two different worlds .....
www.thedrive.com
and
each years hunting season opening day.
The real expected and the nice but limited.
Smashing terminal performance is not the only criteria for popularity as shown by ammo and rifle sales. I & many others prioritize: ballistic efficiency, low cost, ease of use, availability of components and suitability for realistic performance expectations. This is reflected by Hornady's and others (good business practice) high production of 6.5CM ammunition & components. 1,100 yards is far enough for me. No - I don't own or plan to get a machine gun or a M94 .30-.30. My new 6.5 CM will be in use next month & I have been systematically acquiring 300-500 pieces of 1X fired brass.
Imagine - a bucket of once fired, real good LC 6.5 Creedmore brass to supply shooting needs with several rifle barrels available for self installation.
Have not experienced this, .30-.30's have been carried by prison guards gazing down at inmates pumping iron, doing pull-ups or shooting baskets - 8th amendment, barring "cruel & unusual punishment" - denial of recreation; these .30-.30's have probably been replaced by 5.56/.223 (popular military caliber) in Ruger Mini 14's or such.
Edit: the M60 machine gun, designed in 1957 is still being used along with the 7.62 cartridge- 64 years. Should the MK 48, Mod 2, in 6.5 CM be around that long the 6.5 CM cartridge will be use for 64 more years.
U.S. Special Operators Will Soon Be Using This 6.5mm "Assault" Machine Gun
The gun offers better range and accuracy over smaller belt-fed squad automatic weapons.
www.thedrive.com
USSOCOM Adopts 6.5 Creedmoor | Soldier Systems Daily
Last Spring, USSOCOM undertook a study of 6.5 family cartridges to determine a path forward for Precision Intermediate Caliber Ammunition. Over the last yea ...
soldiersystems.net
and
each years hunting season opening day.
The real expected and the nice but limited.
Smashing terminal performance is not the only criteria for popularity as shown by ammo and rifle sales. I & many others prioritize: ballistic efficiency, low cost, ease of use, availability of components and suitability for realistic performance expectations. This is reflected by Hornady's and others (good business practice) high production of 6.5CM ammunition & components. 1,100 yards is far enough for me. No - I don't own or plan to get a machine gun or a M94 .30-.30. My new 6.5 CM will be in use next month & I have been systematically acquiring 300-500 pieces of 1X fired brass.
Imagine - a bucket of once fired, real good LC 6.5 Creedmore brass to supply shooting needs with several rifle barrels available for self installation.
Have not experienced this, .30-.30's have been carried by prison guards gazing down at inmates pumping iron, doing pull-ups or shooting baskets - 8th amendment, barring "cruel & unusual punishment" - denial of recreation; these .30-.30's have probably been replaced by 5.56/.223 (popular military caliber) in Ruger Mini 14's or such.
Edit: the M60 machine gun, designed in 1957 is still being used along with the 7.62 cartridge- 64 years. Should the MK 48, Mod 2, in 6.5 CM be around that long the 6.5 CM cartridge will be use for 64 more years.
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Rifle attraction & handling
Today upon delivering a rifle to be re-barreled to a 6.5 CM at McGowen, I saw another customer's re-barreled Savage 99 in .30-.30. The folks at McGowen did a spectacular job with the re-barrel. They duplicated the original barrel contour and re-blued everything with an even, deep matte blue. Not a ripple or tool mark. The rifle had what looked like a 22 inch light contour barrel having a .5 diameter at the muzzle and was gracefully contoured with perfect wood to metal fit. It would handle and carry great and probably weigh about 7 pounds or less. The original or duplicated open sights were installed in carefully cut dove-tails. A real jewel.
In comparison my Ruger M77 MKII, 6.5 CM will weigh 10 pounds or more, have a protruding asymmetrical bolt handle, a jagged picatinny rail, lumpy laminated stock with high comb, palm swell, asymmetric camber, fat fore-end, big top heavy scope, free float barrel, heavy 26 inch #5 contour barrel and not be as nifty looking or easy to carry. Not for hunting.
The point being - the .30-.30 will be around for a real long time provided these 99's or similar rifles exist.
The rifle's owner, a nice looking man of my generation, answered in the affirmative when I asked him if he planned to shoot deers with his rifle.
Edit, 10/29: Gary Gilmore's execution by Utah Firing Squad - The five executioners were equipped with .30-30-caliber rifles and off-the-shelf Winchester 150-grain (9.7 g) SilverTip ammunition. More use of the .30-.30 by LE.
Today upon delivering a rifle to be re-barreled to a 6.5 CM at McGowen, I saw another customer's re-barreled Savage 99 in .30-.30. The folks at McGowen did a spectacular job with the re-barrel. They duplicated the original barrel contour and re-blued everything with an even, deep matte blue. Not a ripple or tool mark. The rifle had what looked like a 22 inch light contour barrel having a .5 diameter at the muzzle and was gracefully contoured with perfect wood to metal fit. It would handle and carry great and probably weigh about 7 pounds or less. The original or duplicated open sights were installed in carefully cut dove-tails. A real jewel.
In comparison my Ruger M77 MKII, 6.5 CM will weigh 10 pounds or more, have a protruding asymmetrical bolt handle, a jagged picatinny rail, lumpy laminated stock with high comb, palm swell, asymmetric camber, fat fore-end, big top heavy scope, free float barrel, heavy 26 inch #5 contour barrel and not be as nifty looking or easy to carry. Not for hunting.
The point being - the .30-.30 will be around for a real long time provided these 99's or similar rifles exist.
The rifle's owner, a nice looking man of my generation, answered in the affirmative when I asked him if he planned to shoot deers with his rifle.
Edit, 10/29: Gary Gilmore's execution by Utah Firing Squad - The five executioners were equipped with .30-30-caliber rifles and off-the-shelf Winchester 150-grain (9.7 g) SilverTip ammunition. More use of the .30-.30 by LE.
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The 6.5 Creed and 300 PRC will be revered 50 years from now above all others. This is because of inherent accuracy and ultimate efficiency designed to handle modern high BC bullets. Most will see them as improved .308 and 300 Win.Mag. I own and carry a .30-30 sometimes depending on my mood, great cartridge! 
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Should my .300 WM wear out & a small bucket of 6.5 PRC brass be available I would re-barrel to 6.5 PRC. Same head size, less blast & recoil & flatter trajectory.
This whole thing really started for me in 2018. The long range thing I mean.. along with getting back into hunting, and shooting to 1200yds and building rifles and reloading and everything. Sure I've been shooting guns since I was 9 or 10 and I got my first 30-30 when I was 16 or 17. I killed a few deer back then, but I was never as serious about it as I am now. That all changed for me when I came back from Korea in March of 2018. I bought an AR and traded my brother in law a muzzleloader for a Walmart Savage Axis in 308. I purchased a shillen barrel in 6.5creedmoor and watch lots of YouTube videos on how to set the headspace and bed it into the boydes stock. Fort Stewart had a long range shoot every month and I didn't miss a single one once I got my gun set up. It actually took me a while year 2018-2019 to build the gun and then another year to fully get into reloading. Sure I've been around guns my whole life. But the 6.5 creedmoor for me was the gateway drug to long range shooting. I do believe it is like the 30-30 in that it turned a whole new page in shooting sports. The 30-30 took us from black powder, straight wall cartridges into the era of smokeless super sonic bottle neck cartridges. Then the 30-06 came along as the first cartridge where the Army gave a dang about real ballistics. Up until the Creedmoor came out you could have everything that the Creedmoor offers today but you had to go to a custom smith and get a custom barrel and such to get it (I realize I started with a custom barrel too). Not everyone wants to to that or has the money especially when you are a new shooter. Lots of people trash talk the 6.5creedmoor but many of them don't own one. No one points out that EVERY cartridge has areas that it does LESS GOOD than others by nature of physics. I will never sit here and say that my 6.5 is everything my 7mag Tikka is because it's not! Nor am I saying that deer hit at 300 yards by the Creedmoor are DEADER than those hit by a 308 or 7-08 at 300 yards. The 6.5 creedmoor was made for one purpose and that it arguably does very well: compete with the 308 hitting TARGETS at 1000 yards. No matter how you slice, dice, fry, grill, smoke it the factory 6.5creedmoor gives the NEW SHOOTER obsessed with Cris Kyle a better hit ratio at 1000y that the factory 308. Incedendally, this also seems to make it the younger bigger brother to the good ol deer slayer the 243. What the 243 does to a white tail the 6.5 can also do and even at a longer range with it's high BC bullets that don't slow down as fast. Take note, this is an incedendal excellency since the creed was never designed for hunting. But it did land right in the middle of allot of great cartridges for hunting (308,243,260,7-08)and land in the hands of lots of new shooters at the same time.
Most people who trash talk the 6.5creedmoor:
1. Have owned 308/30-06 for 20,30,40 years and don't see the need to get hyped about something new.
2. Have the money to build a custom long range rifle in some caliber that is ACTUALLY better. This is the same group of people who will tell a new guy to buy a 300rum, 7sherman, 7saum, 7stw, the list goes on. (There is obviously no comparison between these and the creed except nobody makes rifles in these to sell at Bass Pro).
3. Are obsessed with calibers that also gut/quarter the elk moose in one shot (300wm through 338LM) and the average guy can't shoot a box of 20 without needing to go to the shoulder doctor afterwards. (This group of people never shoot that much anyway so they don't understand why you would want a gun that you can sit there and shoot 100++ rounds at a 1000y target with no brake and no shoulder bruise and actually LEARN about long range shooting before going out and buying/building a custom rifle.
4. Last group, this group already has a 260 rem, 6.5-284, 6.5x47, 6.5sweed and doesn't care about new shooters coming into the sport and not being able to buy those rifles off the shelf.
If you HATE the 6.5Creedmoor and have made it this far reading this LONG POST think carefully and reply with what person you are (the number (s))
The 30-30 (which is very deer to my heart) put smokeless powder in the hands of the average man at the marlin/Winchester price....
The 6.5 creedmoor but modern, high BC bullets, 1000 yard capability and an awesome deer rifle into the hands of the average man at the Savage/Ruger/Tikka/Bergara price!
Most people who trash talk the 6.5creedmoor:
1. Have owned 308/30-06 for 20,30,40 years and don't see the need to get hyped about something new.
2. Have the money to build a custom long range rifle in some caliber that is ACTUALLY better. This is the same group of people who will tell a new guy to buy a 300rum, 7sherman, 7saum, 7stw, the list goes on. (There is obviously no comparison between these and the creed except nobody makes rifles in these to sell at Bass Pro).
3. Are obsessed with calibers that also gut/quarter the elk moose in one shot (300wm through 338LM) and the average guy can't shoot a box of 20 without needing to go to the shoulder doctor afterwards. (This group of people never shoot that much anyway so they don't understand why you would want a gun that you can sit there and shoot 100++ rounds at a 1000y target with no brake and no shoulder bruise and actually LEARN about long range shooting before going out and buying/building a custom rifle.
4. Last group, this group already has a 260 rem, 6.5-284, 6.5x47, 6.5sweed and doesn't care about new shooters coming into the sport and not being able to buy those rifles off the shelf.
If you HATE the 6.5Creedmoor and have made it this far reading this LONG POST think carefully and reply with what person you are (the number (s))
The 30-30 (which is very deer to my heart) put smokeless powder in the hands of the average man at the marlin/Winchester price....
The 6.5 creedmoor but modern, high BC bullets, 1000 yard capability and an awesome deer rifle into the hands of the average man at the Savage/Ruger/Tikka/Bergara price!
Long as there are rifle looneys...maybe. Now the .260 probably 200yrs.
25-06Stick
Active Member
I'm speculating here, but I think the next big thing we are going to see will be telescoped cartridges and composite high pressure cartridges like the .277 SIG Fury. It seems to be where the military is heading, and I suspect others will follow suit. I also think we are going to see a lot more solid bullets that don't have lead in them. The green machine is wound around the axel on heavy metals, and lead and nickel are on their agenda. Again, it is just my musings on where it is all headed.
BrowningMan270
Member
Nope! I'd have to see if the 6.5 creedmoor sticks around. For now I'll keep my 30-30
mobenzowner
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2016
- Messages
- 684
I know this is mostly a tongue in cheek post and I have no emotional attachment to the 6.5 creed. What I have been trying to figure out however is which side of the 6.5 creed fence is more irrational, delusional, and fuuny, The pro 6.5 contingent or the anti 6.5 group. Hell it's just a caliber, nothing magical, but certainly nothing inherently bad either. Cheers to both!!!
Raymond3
New Member
Or a Marlin lever in 35 Rem of course!
Raymond3
New Member
Here is another reason that I think that the 6.5 CM will last a long time: I know of about 26 young shooters that will be getting one in the future.
At this stage of my life, i am closely looking at all my guns to decide if I should keep them or not based on whether or not they are practical for grandchildren. (number 26 on the way). Of course, there are a couple old timers that I won't part with during my lifetime. So, gone are the 416 Rem. all the 375 H&Hs, most of the 338 Win Mags except my favorite elk rifle, and many more. They went along with all the 44 and 41 mag revolvers. When my children were young, they all shot 30-06s which were downloaded until they had many years of practice and could easily handle the recoil. We took many game animals over 40 years with those rifles. No matter what we hunted, the good ole '06 did the job quite handily.
I like guns. So, over that time, we had 280 rem, 308, 300 Savage, 264 Win Mag, 260 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-30, 223, 35 Rem, and others, but always seemed to like the accuracy performance and knock down dependability of the 30-06.
Now, however, with so many youngsters coming up, and their dads not having the time to reload like I did, I realize that that grand old cartridge is not what I want to pass on willy-nilly to youngsters. Especially the girls. Enter the 6.5 Creedmoor. Being suspicious of hype, i have sure taken my time for years considering the cartridge. The low recoil is of course highly desirable, and no doubt accurate, but....will it effectively get the job done in the field on deer, antelope and hog size game? That was my main question. Well, I have to admit after hunting some rather heavy hogs here in California (being way tougher than deer) I am convinced that at ranges up to at least 300 yards (and probably more), with well made bullets and decent shot placement, the 6.5 Creedmoor is indeed effective.
So, I have decided to focus on the 6.5 CM as my preferred gift to grandchildren (mostly for their 18th birthday). Hopefully, it will be around I think that it deserves to be.
At this stage of my life, i am closely looking at all my guns to decide if I should keep them or not based on whether or not they are practical for grandchildren. (number 26 on the way). Of course, there are a couple old timers that I won't part with during my lifetime. So, gone are the 416 Rem. all the 375 H&Hs, most of the 338 Win Mags except my favorite elk rifle, and many more. They went along with all the 44 and 41 mag revolvers. When my children were young, they all shot 30-06s which were downloaded until they had many years of practice and could easily handle the recoil. We took many game animals over 40 years with those rifles. No matter what we hunted, the good ole '06 did the job quite handily.
I like guns. So, over that time, we had 280 rem, 308, 300 Savage, 264 Win Mag, 260 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-30, 223, 35 Rem, and others, but always seemed to like the accuracy performance and knock down dependability of the 30-06.
Now, however, with so many youngsters coming up, and their dads not having the time to reload like I did, I realize that that grand old cartridge is not what I want to pass on willy-nilly to youngsters. Especially the girls. Enter the 6.5 Creedmoor. Being suspicious of hype, i have sure taken my time for years considering the cartridge. The low recoil is of course highly desirable, and no doubt accurate, but....will it effectively get the job done in the field on deer, antelope and hog size game? That was my main question. Well, I have to admit after hunting some rather heavy hogs here in California (being way tougher than deer) I am convinced that at ranges up to at least 300 yards (and probably more), with well made bullets and decent shot placement, the 6.5 Creedmoor is indeed effective.
So, I have decided to focus on the 6.5 CM as my preferred gift to grandchildren (mostly for their 18th birthday). Hopefully, it will be around I think that it deserves to be.
