Used to be that the 30-06 was like that. Then came the .308 Win. Then along came Jones ( song I should link) and 5.56 was everywhere. Now Uncle Sam is loading 6.8 x 51 at LC and treating not to let civilians have any. Thanks Just Joe. But once LC constructs more than Uncle Sam can use, oh y'all got to love surplus.
Is the .308 Win 7.62 X 51 still a Long Range Hunting Cartridge?
- Thread starter M118LR
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So if y'all fireform that M80 or M118 brass to your bolt, knock out the primer and replace it a match quality unit. Find the node on an extruded powder, and match it with a proven game reeper Projectile, can it be a LRH cartridge?
I'm sure you have heard the term " McNamarra's Moron's'" which was the politically incorrect name for "Project 100,000". Sad fact where the government decided to lower the IQ requirement in order to fulfill draft quotas. Sadly a lot of these guys didn't make it through their first firefight. They even tried pairing them with a soldier of higher intelligence and more time in country which did help increase their survival rate somewhat. Sadly these guys had to go fight while many other folks ended up dodging the draft. I'd serve if I got called but "Trust my government", not even a little bit. I know it's off topic but you were discussing intelligence so I figured I would chime in.Can't agree with as good as it gets, but that was at the top end of as good as it got. Remember, way back then the Military Brain Trust "KNEW" that enlisted conscripts couldn't be trusted with detachable mags so all the base plates were welded so a less than competent trooper wouldn't dump all his ammo on the ground and have nothing left! How intelligent could a trooper carrying a bolt action into Battle against fully automatic small arms be? The Navy went so far as to only issue MK2 Knives to some of their elite Dummies!Very few, if any could score better on the 1K line with a bolt over an M14NM.
Amen! What gets me is during the shortage they couldn't produce enough ammo for cartridges that already existed yet were still inventing and adding more new cartridges which had to tie up lines and production time. The old "We can't make enough of what we already have so let's invent some new stuff that will slow us down even more approach".
I had a real problem accepting my spouses Oldest Brother, perhaps not as bad as her family other than her Father had with me. While I was learning how to shoot a 7.62 x 51 and sporting an MK2 in country, he was riding a chopper to Canada. But he also inherited her genetic disease and spent six years drooling on himself without being able to communicate with the human world. So perhaps KARMA is a real thing? Yet I hold his spouse in such esteem, she withstood all that even as her world crumbled. Yet she never left his side......
Yep, sadly snipers and the art was frowned upon during peacetime and not just by the US. Then a war would come along, one side would have snipers, and the other side would have to do the mad scramble and play catch-up. We needed snipers in WW1, WW2, and Korea yet still hadn't learned the lesson by the time Vietnam rolled around.Sad but all to true.Don't forget that scrapping precision training (Snipers) every time a War ended was Uncle Sam's Normal mode of operation. That is why there was such a scramble in NAM. Hello, Bull barrel civilian hunting rifles were being taken afield! Still wonder what would have happened if Uncle Sam and the USMC would have stuck with the Win Model 70 's that the USMC actually had in-service before the conflict?
Now to many this may seem off topic, but the .308 Win was developed for Military use to reproduce or replace the 30-06, and introduced to the civilian to make Winchester more Republic Credits. A huge success story if you ask me!
KARMA is definitely a real thing. My hats off to his spouse. That's a tough road. I'm still not sure why my wife has put up with me in my tough years. But she's still right here!
Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt the standard 30-06 ammo produced for the military use a 147 grain bullet running approximately 2700fps. Though I seem to remember Hathcock preferred a load using a 173 grain bullet for sniping purposes.Now to many this may seem off topic, but the .308 Win was developed for Military use to reproduce or replace the 30-06, and introduced to the civilian to make Winchester more Republic Credits. A huge success story if you ask me!
So about those man bun wearing 6.5 Creedmore folks that can't hit a 10 inch target over 90% of the time at the 1K KD one way Range while it's sitting still with their ballistic programs, blue tooth links, etc, and extra superb 6.5 performance, while not under fire. Yup, it's a easy day.
Bet you can Google Battlefield exploits of folks that made such shots repeatatively with the Old School outdated 7.62 X 51? Dang, those folks must have been some pretty good marksman???
Bet you can Google Battlefield exploits of folks that made such shots repeatatively with the Old School outdated 7.62 X 51? Dang, those folks must have been some pretty good marksman??? 
William W.
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To me, "still" means a consideration of the competing cartridges and our circumstances. Other than 5.56, which I will only pick up if it is grouped on the ground by manufacturer and tied with a green bow. I admit to liking 300WM and 300 Norma. I have a 6.5 Creedmoor simply because the yuppies that shot it, occasionally leave big piles of fresh brass on the ground. Yet always, STILL, I can find many varieties of 308 brass on the ground - all of which get primer pockets uniformed, flash hole deburred, and sized and trimmed and throat beveled. In Tennessee, "long range" is 100-yards in the woods, and despite this bucolic picture, the open road is illegal to hunt along. I can always buy Nosler seconds and find non-Federal Match primers. For me, my many 308's will always be "long range". Oh, and the Cheap 20" Criterion barrel is now a 24"re-crowned 5R barrel that came off a purchase of a used 308 on a gorgeous Desert Camo McMillan stock.
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The 7.62 X 51 used 147 BTFMJ. 30-06 150 grain flat base. Recall that 173 grain LC Projectile that eventually became the problem not the solution?
liber
Well-Known Member
Fair question, but what about the ones that can? Sure, some of them can't, but that was so with the 308 and the 30-06 also.
Oh, I shouldn't do this, but I'm an Old Sailor with more brass than brains. All those 6.5 folks elk hunting at 700 yards in the high altitudes of the rocky mountains,. Feed me all that information in sub zero weather, with a 30 knot wind in your face, at sea level that keeps your Projectile at the 2600 fps impact speed on a Roosevelt Elk that is much bigger and tougher than those little Rocky Mountain Elk. What kind of actual fps or kinetic energy remains on your less than .3 SD Projectile on an 1100 lb elk? I'm thick skinned, flail me with your best. 
