Is the .308 Win 7.62 X 51 still a Long Range Hunting Cartridge?

[William W.]

A recent acquisition of a lifetime desire in honor of Carlos Hathcock's incredible achievements. Pre-64 Winchester 30-06 (action made in 1950) and Unertl Scope made in the late 1940's. Heavy Douglas barrel and target stock, as allowed.

 

[Turpentine21]

No just the first three and the one at the top of the four. I don't know how many 308s I have owned through the years but I keep coming back to it. I own two now, a 20" & a 16". I recently sold the TRG because I built the 20" on a Terminus action. I probably have more data on 308 than any other round but my go to is Hornady TAP or Black 168 AMAXs. I can't remember how many deer we have killed with that round. It is over a hundred.

My 20" gas gan loves 168 Amax's at a MV of 2600ps. It doesn't like eldm's. I shoot mine for depredation at times when I get tired of the 6.5s or for daytime use. There's more recoil but it is a killer for sure. I've killed a lot of deer with it out to 500 yards. The Amax just gets better with distance.

 

[Bravo 4]

Like I said, that video showed a neck shot (even if the end didn't show the neck wound, the DRT is a clear spinal shot) - the wind drift was a lot more than 2 MOA.

This is a screenshot from that video that shows the neck shot.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

This is a screenshot from that video that shows the neck shot. View attachment 642516

Yeah I imagine if it wouldn't have hit spine and dropped, it never would have made in onto youtube. Seen anything else from this guy??? Just sayin

 

[436]

A recent acquisition of a lifetime desire in honor of Carlos Hathcock's incredible achievements. Pre-64 Winchester 30-06 (action made in 1950) and Unertl Scope made in the late 1940's. Heavy Douglas barrel and target stock, as allowed.

That is old school and as good as it gets, congrats... Cheers

 

[Teri Anne]

I know that today's Military has dropped the 7.62 X 51/ .308 Win as a Sniper round. Yet it has been a proven performer for more than half a century. Every critter in CONUS has been dropped with the lowly 30-30, so is the .308 Win still viable?

I have been retired from the Army since 1994, but the 7.62 x 51 (308) and M14 rifle were still being used for different applications in the military, to include competitive shooting. Back during the last Southeast Asia War Games, since I could shoot, I was issued a M14. It was used for airfield defense. It was an excellent weapon. It's effective range was as far or farther than the AK-47 that our not so friendly foes were shooting at us. It was very effective shooting back an the enemy at night using their muzzle flashes for targets. Then someone had the bright idea that the M14 was no longer a viable weapon for that **** storm. They took our M14s away from us and issued us M16s. Once that happened, the enemy had us outgunned by 200 or more yards. When I was shooting on Army Rifle teams, we were again issued M14 rifles to shoot in competition. The M14 was accurate beyond 600 yards, but not quite out to 1000. Others shooting .308 bolt guns out to 1000 were successful, but the gas operated action took away some of the velocity that was needed to keep the bullets streamlined out to 1000. We could shoot 1000, but about 50% of the rounds out of the M14 would keyhole through the targets. So in answer to your question, "Is the 308 still viable?" Yes, it is. I would not suggest standing 1000 yards down range with someone shooting at you to check it out. Even keyhole bullets do the intended job quite well.

 

[William W.]

I have been retired from the Army since 1994, but the 7.62 x 51 (308) and M14 rifle were still being used for different applications in the military, to include competitive shooting. Back during the last Southeast Asia War Games, since I could shoot, I was issued a M14. It was used for airfield defense. It was an excellent weapon. It's effective range was as far or farther than the AK-47 that our not so friendly foes were shooting at us. It was very effective shooting back an the enemy at night using their muzzle flashes for targets. Then someone had the bright idea that the M14 was no longer a viable weapon for that **** storm. They took our M14s away from us and issued us M16s. Once that happened, the enemy had us outgunned by 200 or more yards. When I was shooting on Army Rifle teams, we were again issued M14 rifles to shoot in competition. The M14 was accurate beyond 600 yards, but not quite out to 1000. Others shooting .308 bolt guns out to 1000 were successful, but the gas operated action took away some of the velocity that was needed to keep the bullets streamlined out to 1000. We could shoot 1000, but about 50% of the rounds out of the M14 would keyhole through the targets. So in answer to your question, "Is the 308 still viable?" Yes, it is. I would not suggest standing 1000 yards down range with someone shooting at you to check it out. Even keyhole bullets do the intended job quite well.

Keyholing is due to 168's. I shot the 1000-yard matches at Camp Perry with 175's.

 

[William W.]

That is old school and as good as it gets, congrats... Cheers

Thank you.

 

[M118LR]

Thank you.

Can't agree with as good as it gets, but that was at the top end of as good as it got. Remember, way back then the Military Brain Trust "KNEW" that enlisted conscripts couldn't be trusted with detachable mags so all the base plates were welded so a less than competent trooper wouldn't dump all his ammo on the ground and have nothing left! How intelligent could a trooper carrying a bolt action into Battle against fully automatic small arms be? The Navy went so far as to only issue MK2 Knives to some of their elite Dummies! Very few, if any could score better on the 1K line with a bolt over an M14NM.

 

[Teri Anne]

Keyholing is due to 168's. I shot the 1000-yard matches at Camp Perry with 175's.

Keyholes happened with 168 gr Sierras as well as Lake City Match 173 gr Match. Possible it was my rifle but others were having the same problems. The barrel at that time was a National Match with around 600 rounds through it. After that went to a Model 70 in 300 H&H.

 

[M118LR]

Keyholes happened with 168 gr Sierras as well as Lake City Match 173 gr Match. Possible it was my rifle but others were having the same problems. The barrel at that time was a National Match with around 600 rounds through it. After that went to a Model 70 in 300 H&H.

Once Lake City went to the 175 SMK instead of the aged and poorly QA'd 173 LC Projectile, things got better. That's why the 168 SMK Mexican Match was such a hit at the 300 KD Line. When Federal took over LC from Winchester, match primers, brass, and extruded powders once again became standard for M118. Unfortunately, Winchester is once again in charge of Lake City Arsenal.

 

[Teri Anne]

Once Lake City went to the 175 SMK instead of the aged and poorly QA'd 173 LC Projectile, things got better. When Federal took over LC from Winchester, match primers, brass, and extruded powders once again became standard for M118. Unfortunately, Winchester is once again in charge of Lake City Arsenal.

Ah yes...the government standard goes to the lowest bidder, which most often puts quality control out the window.

 

[M118LR]

Ah yes...the government standard goes to the lowest bidder, which most often puts quality control out the window.

Sad but all to true. Don't forget that scrapping precision training (Snipers) every time a War ended was Uncle Sam's Normal mode of operation. That is why there was such a scramble in NAM. Hello, Bull barrel civilian hunting rifles were being taken afield! Still wonder what would have happened if Uncle Sam and the USMC would have stuck with the Win Model 70 's that the USMC actually had in-service before the conflict?

 

[mazroth]

During Covid, so many were complaining about not being able to find ammo, not being able to afford this caliber or that. Told them, if you want to keep shooting, and do it affordably, buy a 308. Brass and projectiles were cheap, and ammo was on the shelf during covid. It has been around a long time, and will continue to be.