Is the .308 Win 7.62 X 51 still a Long Range Hunting Cartridge?

[Pro2A]

7.62x51 is still the primary fielded sniper caliber in the U.S Military. Some specific units field creedmoors and special purpose calibers for longer range i.e- 300wm, 300 Norma mag, 338 Lapua and 50 BMG for (anti material ) but 308 is still the gold standard.

300NormaMag is the ASR....Advanced Sniper Rifle....ie Barrett MRAD MK22....round for personnel targets; 338NM for material targets...rumored to be edging out 50BMG for that role in sniper world....lighter weapon'n'ammo doesn't get left in base armory on mountain humps, gets more rounds to the fight.... . 308Win 17" is snuggled along in the Deployment Kit for practice on bases with shorter ranges, doping/windwhispering practice. Last several years, every visit in Barrett factory, Pelicans1770s have been stacked to ceiling either holding or awaiting those offerings. If one really looks at the old warriors....308Win, 300WinMag, 7mmRemMag, et el.....they are older technology, but aren't outpaced by much by the fancyschmancy new marketing rounds. A dead prey is still dead, not able to tell the difference......and.....unlike those manbun rounds...... those ole warriors still pass the Two Dot requirement for real hunting rounds. Just an old geezer.....of old technology too...ponderings.

 

[Turpentine21]

I have 2 308s. One a gas gun with a 20" barrel. The other a bolt with a 26" barrel. For the 20" 700 yards is where its accuracy really stumbles. For the 26". It gets tricky at around 850 and you better be on your game in the wind department if you are going past that. At least for me anyway. I'm basically at sea level. I used to think of 600 yards as long range. These days I tend to think of it as 800 yards and beyond. I have shot mine accurately to 1000 yards on a good day. Yes the 308 will do 800 and beyond but there are cartridges out there that will let you do it much more easily.

 

[340 in Va]

From the video, it looks like it was hit in the neck - and at the end, clearly shows it was hit in the neck. Easy to play armchair QB, but the pine tree below the elk is bending pretty hard in the wind - 2 minutes? IMO, bad wind call and lucky it hit the neck.

I love my .308, but wind drift past 500 limits my shots.

IMO the shooter made three mistakes, 1-bad wind call (as you pointed out), 2- second elk behind the one he shot (bullet almost hit cow in leg), 3- He had plenty of time to get closer. In the end he got lucky. I will say I love the fact he is including his son on the trip.

 

[h_1ag]

It's the bullet that does the killing, put a heavy high BC bullet that opens low and you can stretch it out. A 215 Berger is a wrecking ball on an elk well beyond 600 yards!!

While that's true… you're intruding deeply into the powder column and really limiting your case capacity, so your velocity is going to inevitably suffer compared to cartridges intended to shoot bullets that heavy. .308 with anything heavier than 180gr is kinda like chunking a rock. Never really gets going.

 

[Greatgrandad]

What load is only drifting 4.5" at 600 yards with a 10mph full value wind?

John

A 155 Berger and AMAX loaded in my 26" @ 3,000 fps. Data at my altitude.

 

[Taj]

Not sure why you think the military and its snipers of the world stopped using the 7.62, but that is not correct. It is still the primary sniper caliber world wide. I read somewhere that socom was going to convert their semiauto snipers rifles to the needmore, but can't confirm if that is correct. If so, it's stupid. The vacation spots our Marines and spec ops troops visit, don't and will never carry a needmore. So if our boys and girls run out of ammo, good luck funding needmore rounds in Somalia, Qatar, any of the " "stans, etc. If the world went to hell tomorrow, all these guys that think all the prcs, needmores and all the other latest and supposedly greatest rounds are the best thing will either be smart and pick up an ar15 and an ar10 or other 308 and a 300 win mag or they will be fools and quickly go the way of the dodo. I'd bet the 308 has killed everything on the planet too. Unfortunately elephants, tigers, lions and rhinos included albeit illegally. Polars and grizzlies legally by Inuits, no thanks. And most everything else is just small stuff that even a needmore might take at short ranges. I love my 264 Wins and my 300 and 340 Weatherbys, but my first big game rifle was a 308 and I have and always will have several of them. I hunt with one in VA every yr. And for decades it has been a one shot deer slayer and has removed the head of many gobblers. Don't forget Carlos Hathcock hammered many many bad guys all around the 1000yd marker with them and Snipers have killed bad guys at near 1400yds with the 308. So I guess u could say it is certainly qualified to be called a long range round and is very viable if you know your limitations and respect its. As with all rifles, the shooter has to do their part. JOMO

You are right about the .308 but According to Carlos's book, his primary rifle in VN was a Model 70 chambered in good old .30-06. Which is at least a million times better than an old .308.

 

[h_1ag]

You are right about the .308 but According to Carlos's book, his primary rifle in VN was a Model 70 chambered in good old .30-06. Which is at least a million times better than an old .308.

.308 is great if you don't like case capacity.

 

[Nomad8961]

In my not so humble opinion it is just about the perfect cartridge and decades ahead of its time. As a long range and competitive cartridge it is my favorite to load and shoot. I have been a fan for almost 30 years. IMO if there had been good factory support there never would have been a need for a creed or PRC!

When I was younger my dad and I had a gunsmith that was practically family and he converted a few Swedes to a 6.5x284 shooting 129 hornady and 4350. His exact words were, "it kills like lightning" he is the reason I built one and will probably build another soon. It's a joy to shoot and very accurate. It was nothing to get it to shoot .6s. I've only got 200 rounds on it and am really wanting to shoot it a lot more this year. Easily my favorite cartridge.

 

[Paladin300]

Very nice collection. Are they all .308?

No just the first three and the one at the top of the four. I don't know how many 308s I have owned through the years but I keep coming back to it. I own two now, a 20" & a 16". I recently sold the TRG because I built the 20" on a Terminus action. I probably have more data on 308 than any other round but my go to is Hornady TAP or Black 168 AMAXs. I can't remember how many deer we have killed with that round. It is over a hundred.

 

[Greatgrandad]

While we all know there are faster and flatter shooting cartridges today, heck, I own many, it never ceases to amaze me why some people think the old ones quit working. Are there "better" cartridges than the old 308, 30-06, 270W, etc, etc? Sure, but many of us killed a lot of game back in the days, and even today, with these old work horses, and we never knew we weren't supposed to. And with old school bullets even!

Countless deer, pronghorn, elk, etc were killed using these oldies and old school holdover with 3-9x scopes.

Especially, given many of the distances some post as their personal limit.

 

[Calvin45]

I mean if we think of "olden days" a black powder 45-70, 45-90, 50-110, etc out of a sharps rifle with quality sights and a skilled marksman was put to great effect as a bonafide long range hunting rifle and cartridge. Hardly means it's prudent to choose such a set up today as being the best tool for the job.

The .308 echoes that in many ways. Absolutely it's an awesome and versatile round, and has been used to great effect for long range sniping, competition, and hunting.

There are also MUCH better tools for the job.

So yes absolutely the .308/7.62x51 is still a long range hunting and shooting round. It is also outperformed for that task by literally dozens of other options.

 

[Calvin45]

OP are we hunting or sniping? very different with a different set of requirements. Not going to pretend to have military experience but I have plenty of scope time for deer, pigs, elk, nilgai and Aoudad beyond 600yards.

It is simple for ANY caliber, look at your impact velocity. Are you above 1800fps impact? Then yes you are still in an effective and repeatable bullet expansion distance.

Nothing wrong with the 308 but its effective expansion range is shorter then a magnum launching a heavier bullet faster. Just facts
In most 308win loads I would limit myself to 500yd and below based on impact velocity. Otherwise you are poking pencil holes, may be effective on people because we are fragile but not effective for quick kills on an wild animal like Elk!

for comparison: my custom 300wm launching 225eldM at 2975fps is effective by the same 1800fps impact limit out to 1120yds in Texas near sea level and even further in Colorado at higher altitude.

So to answer your queston: yes the 308Win is viable as a Longrange hunting caliber if you watch your impact velocity to limit your distance but that is the exact same for every caliber.

There I took your bait but stand firm on my answer
James

That's fast for a .300 win mag. What barrel length and powder you running to get just shy of 3000 with a 225?

 

[LRNut]

Well, I've have used the 308 for decades, and some of those were in Nat'l Match in 600 yard prone and 800-1,000 yard Palma and some other. Wind reading is always part of LR shooting, and if one is not confident shooting a 308 past 500 yards because of wind reading, then I would suggest more study and practice in that field.

One of my 308 Palma and hunting loads will only drift 4.5" at 600 yards with a 10mph 90 degree crosswind. It would be a rarity if I blow a wind call by 10 mph and at 90 degrees.

Like I said, that video showed a neck shot (even if the end didn't show the neck wound, the DRT is a clear spinal shot) - the wind drift was a lot more than 2 MOA. I shoot every day at LR in CO and several times per week when I am in AZ, and just that tree blowing told me it was more than 2 MOA.

I love my .308 but there are other cartridges that have less wind drift.

FWIW, I was the three-time undefeated US Army Alaska champ; shot twice in the I Corp (western US) championships and finished second and first. I didn't win those by failing to read the wind.

As for your drift claim, there is no way a 155 gr bullet drifts 4.5" at 600 yards - a Berger VLD at 2870 drifts 4.4 MOA - that is 26+ inches. My 28N launching 195 Bergers drifts 2.2 MOA.

 

[LRNut]

A 155 Berger and AMAX loaded in my 26" @ 3,000 fps. Data at my altitude.

Even at 10K feet it drifts 2.2 MOA or 13.2 inches.