Is it possible to damage or affect the accuracy of a barrel by black nitriding it?

[Brett Bracken]

I am in the process of planning a new rifle build and would like to end up with something other than a shiny SS finish. I don't care for the Ceracoat....just want to end up with a nice black matte/satin finish if possible and the Black Nitriding process appears to be that for which I am looking. However, from what I understand about the process there is very high heat involved. Is there a possibility that my new barrel could be damaged or affected by the heating process? Also....can the barrel and action be nitrided as one unit or do they need to be taken apart?
Thanks for anyone's input....Brett

 

[bigngreen]

Yes you can have issues and you have to do a fair bit of clean up to the bore. There are a few barrel makers that absolutely do not want their barrels nitrided because its at the same temps they stress relieve at. You will want the parts separated.

 

[shortgrass]

^^^^^^ What he said. I spend at least an hour cleaning the inside of a barrel after having it treated.

 

[moa_shooter]

black nitrided actions are smother but it doesn't effect accuracy and the best is to do the process when the barrel and actions are disassembled

 

[Brett Bracken]

Thank you gentlemen for your responses.

 

[milo-2]

Not my place to ask, but why the disdain for cerakote? Not sure how much research you've done on nitriding, and of coarse you will read good and not so good, but I have never read where cerakote unless it got inside the barrel(crown) where it has ever affected accuracy.
Years back, I had 2 barrels nitrided, and I said not again. I can get into the why aspect, but truthfully I don't know if my experience is fact or speculation. Accuracy was not my issue as much as a lowered sustained rate of fire.

 

[Brett Bracken]

Not my place to ask, but why the disdain for cerakote? Not sure how much research you've done on nitriding, and of coarse you will read good and not so good, but I have never read where cerakote unless it got inside the barrel(crown) where it has ever affected accuracy.
Years back, I had 2 barrels nitrided, and I said not again. I can get into the why aspect, but truthfully I don't know if my experience is fact or speculation. Accuracy was not my issue as much as a lowered sustained rate of fire.

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

 

[Edd]

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

http://www.clubcustomguns.com

 

[Rick Richard]

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

If you are not comfortable with the finishes mentioned and want to remove the shiny finish, then have it bead blasted to a satin finish.

 

[dfanonymous]

Not my place to ask, but why the disdain for cerakote? Not sure how much research you've done on nitriding, and of coarse you will read good and not so good, but I have never read where cerakote unless it got inside the barrel(crown) where it has ever affected accuracy.
Years back, I had 2 barrels nitrided, and I said not again. I can get into the why aspect, but truthfully I don't know if my experience is fact or speculation. Accuracy was not my issue as much as a lowered sustained rate of fire.

It (cerakote) doesn't require the same heat as nitriding. It's oven baked about 300 degrees. Techniques vary (read the instructions) but and hour or two is typical. There is an air cure cerakote if you wanted. All the parts that move metal to metal shouldn't be heavily coated. I prefer nothing at all, so I mechanically lap it all out so to speak.

 

[bigngreen]

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

Cerakote will give you a nice matte black when using armor black, I match nitrided actions all the time and you can't tell the difference between the two. IF Cerakote is done right it adds .0005 to .001 which on any factory gun makes them run way better. There are a couple custom actions that are tight like a Borden and you can Cerakote the action but leave the center body of the bolt and it'll run good.
Many of the sticky issues are due to running with a bunch of oil or grease, Cerakote runs excellent dry on it's self cause that's what it's made to do OR the applicator uses air cure and does not allow the time to fully cure.
Cerakote is baked at 300 degrees for an hour or 200 degrees for 2 horus, nitride is done at 900-1100 depending on the company doing the process.

 

[milo-2]

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

Thanks for the reply, we may have diff tastes, but Cobalt color cerakote may suit your fancy. Plus there are other non shiny color options. I am not sure if their process has changed, but my nitride barrels were shinier than most of my coated barrels have been unless specified or color choice.
As for heat in a coating process, highest temp I have heard of is 325F, but that is a high volume shop and I bet most don't come close to applying that much heat. I think the guy who does my work, sprays, then bakes overnight at lower temps, and I like his work.

 

[Brett Bracken]

bigngreen,
Who would you recommend to do a quality Cerakoting job? And can the barreled action be done in one piece or do they need to be separate as you mentioned previously?

 

[Rumup]

I had my last two barrels nitrated and the two builds be for that were Cerakoted. I no longer own any cerakote rifles. I much prefer nitrate just my preference.