Is faster better?

[FEENIX]

Accuracy is KING. Speed is not nearly as important as accuracy, that is why you have drop charts. Don't try to push a bullet faster just to get more speed. You want to push the bullet as fast as you can as it reduced the effects of gravity, spin drift and other outside forces as the time to target is reduced, but too much speed can be a negative as well.

Agreed!

 

[ButterBean]

Plenty of bloodshot, never recovered coyote bait out there. Try remembering that lol.

Hammers don't do Bloodshot

 

[ButterBean]

The reason I am more for velocity than BC is that in the begining I could not afford good glass.
I would count the clicks but they were never even or reliable and would never return to zero.
Then I discovered that once you break the 4000FPS threshold It's a hole new world.
So I would sight in and just leave it there, I knew the terrain and began to pay attention to distances "this was before affordable range finders" when I did miss I realised that I always over shot my target. So from there on if I was unsure I would just put they horizontal retical even with the spine, and that would give me from one inch to two feet of drop depending on they animal.
They impact was always higher than I would have expected, I soon learned that they only thing better than 4000FPS was anything over 4000fps. I have also found that the recoil is a lot less and I can keep my eye on the target even after a shot is fired, or at least reacquire it faster than with one with violent recoil in the rare case that I would need a follow up shot. I have also learned over the years that if a shot does not hit the target in an optimum place the chances of that animal walking away or suffering is less with a high velocity shot than one hit with a heavyier slower bullet. This is due to what is called Hydostatic shock, what that is is when the bullet hits the target at high velocity. The chain reaction internally is so violent that even if a vital organ is not hit or enough to kill or disable they animal, the chain reaction of they other organs or bones being displaced will. That and as always the time of flight is always important especially when they animal is fleeing or moves slightly from the laps in time when you finally decide to pull the trigger.

Dean

PS: These are my findings from years of trial and error.

Uhhhhh ........................Yep

 

[ButterBean]

Accuracy is KING. Speed is not nearly as important as accuracy, that is why you have drop charts. Don't try to push a bullet faster just to get more speed. You want to push the bullet as fast as you can as it reduces the effects of gravity, spin drift and other outside forces as the time to target is reduced, but too much speed can be a negative as well.

I agree 100% but now you have the opportunity to have your cake and eat it too

 

[FEENIX]

The reason I am more for velocity than BC is that in the begining I could not afford good glass.
I would count the clicks but they were never even or reliable and would never return to zero.
Then I discovered that once you break the 4000FPS threshold It's a hole new world.
So I would sight in and just leave it there, I knew the terrain and began to pay attention to distances "this was before affordable range finders" when I did miss I realised that I always over shot my target. So from there on if I was unsure I would just put they horizontal retical even with the spine, and that would give me from one inch to two feet of drop depending on they animal.
They impact was always higher than I would have expected, I soon learned that they only thing better than 4000FPS was anything over 4000fps. I have also found that the recoil is a lot less and I can keep my eye on the target even after a shot is fired, or at least reacquire it faster than with one with violent recoil in the rare case that I would need a follow up shot. I have also learned over the years that if a shot does not hit the target in an optimum place the chances of that animal walking away or suffering is less with a high velocity shot than one hit with a heavyier slower bullet. This is due to what is called Hydostatic shock, what that is is when the bullet hits the target at high velocity. The chain reaction internally is so violent that even if a vital organ is not hit or enough to kill or disable they animal, the chain reaction of they other organs or bones being displaced will. That and as always the time of flight is always important especially when they animal is fleeing or moves slightly from the laps in time when you finally decide to pull the trigger.

Dean

PS: These are my findings from years of trial and error.

I am not sure what bullet you are propelling at 4000 FPS, but my load for my .270 AI is only 2993 FPS with 175 Matrix VLD, but this coyote staring at me at 525Y did not know what hit him ...

 

[ButterBean]

This is a 500 yard gong, the black splashes are 308 178 ELDX@2750 and the craters are 25-06AI 90gr AH's@ 3864 same day same distance

 

[xsn10s]

Hammers don't do Bloodshot

It's considerably slower, but still, this is from a half-ounce sized bit of plastic at 15,000 mph...


impact..View attachment 281031

Yes, but it may be difficult to collect your venison..

My bloodshot meat comment was in reference to these posts. I haven't used Hammers but generally speaking bloodshot meat can happen due to the degree of hydrostatic shock. I find that more common at hyper velocities. Depending on how the Hammers expand YMMV.

 

[yobuck]

Opinions vary. Anecdotes can be helpful. If you really want a deeper understanding in this time of component drought make some coffee, turn on the reading lamp

Bryan Litz Books

Bryan Litz' books take his highly complex ideas and explain them in layman terms. Here you can find a list of his current books as well as a description.

bergerbullets.com

I questioned Brian on this very site a few years ago on the reality of first round hits at extreme distances.
His answer was, (first round hits can be expected).
Well so can snow be expected in Jacksonville.
But be careful where you put your thumb while you wait.
Not saying there isnt usefull information in books such as his.
But (nothing), beats actually watching them fly across wide windy valleys at a distant target.
If you havent done it or watched it being done, then do so before forming many opinions about it regardless of what you might have read.
Check the stats at the worlds oldest 1000 yd benchrest club to see if any of the now many record group holders have ever duplicated their own performance.
And that just a mere 1000 yds.
But then again it is possible isnt it?

 

[Greyfox]

IMO, there is no "right" answer on this one. The job at hand/criteria
and equipment, for each shooter/hunter will generally define the optimum load. In my case which includes LRH, maximum velocity will often take a back seat to other factors/variables without being a detriment to overall success.

 

[Sealesniper]

I have a 22-250AI with a 1-8 Lilja barrel. I wanted to get max speed without sacrificing accuracy. I kept working up a load with 40 grain rounds. Got to 4253 fps and had great accuracy for a few rounds in a string then one would not hit paper at 200 yards. I discovered that the bullet was breaking apart because it was turning 382,500 RPM as it left the barrel. I backed it down in velocity and ended up going a little heavier in mass on the bullet to a 50gr pill and still over 4010fps and it drives tacks. Slowed it down, bullet is stable and it is ridiculously accurate. Drop chart starts at 300 yards with 3.9" of drop from my 200 zero and max rise of .6" at 100 yards. It is a point and shoot coyote killer to 300 and hold over to back height to 400.

 

[dogz]

I've got a 22/250AI with 8 twist from Schneider on my Kimber 84M. It's a shooter, for giggles I'll have to give the 40 NBT's a go and see if they'll hold together. I've mainly been using 60's-85.5's so far.

 

[xsn10s]

I am not sure what bullet you are propelling at 4000 FPS, but my load for my .270 AI is only 2993 FPS with 175 Matrix VLD, but this coyote staring at me at 525Y did not know what hit him ...

View attachment 281106
View attachment 281107

Brutal at my altitude that had over 2000 ft/lbs energy at 525 yds. I'd use that for elk out to 700 yds. At my altitude that still have over 1500 ft/lbs energy at 800 yds.

 

[xsn10s]

I've got a 22/250AI with 8 twist from Schneider on my Kimber 84M. It's a shooter, for giggles I'll have to give the 40 NBT's a go and see if they'll hold together. I've mainly been using 60's-85.5's so far.

I pushed 22-40 NBT over 4k fps and they held together. I can't remember the twist though because it was 16 years ago. All done in a lab.

 

[yobuck]

I have a 22-250AI with a 1-8 Lilja barrel. I wanted to get max speed without sacrificing accuracy. I kept working up a load with 40 grain rounds. Got to 4253 fps and had great accuracy for a few rounds in a string then one would not hit paper at 200 yards. I discovered that the bullet was breaking apart because it was turning 382,500 RPM as it left the barrel. I backed it down in velocity and ended up going a little heavier in mass on the bullet to a 50gr pill and still over 4010fps and it drives tacks. Slowed it down, bullet is stable and it is ridiculously accurate. Drop chart starts at 300 yards with 3.9" of drop from my 200 zero and max rise of .6" at 100 yards. It is a point and shoot coyote killer to 300 and hold over to back height to 400.

That was being done 75 years ago with 220 Swifts.
Problem with them wasent 400, it was 800.
Did you know that ( none ) of the 5 men who created the worlds first 1000 yd benchrest club were target shooters?
They were all varmit shooters, who were killing lots of groundhogs at some god awfull extreme distances.
But not with Swifts.
And, they were also long range deer hunters.