Is Blue Printing an Action important?

[NesikaChad]

With all due respect to Chad, who by all indications does great work, there is no way in hell I would take a Rem action and put $800.00 into it.
I have come to the conclusion after a few years that a custom action is the best way to go as far as product and resale value. I agree with Bountyhunter on this one.
Orde a custom action setup the way you want it and find a quality smith on this site to chamber it up for you.
Blipelt's comment about trusting your smith is spot on. They do this for a living, let them steer you in the right direction.

Believe me, no offense taken. I offer all of these services but I've only had two clients in the last 5 years actually take me up on it. The bulk want the "1st tier" along with maybe a couple other little things.

Keep in mind also that the "full monty" includes about $300 in parts so it's not just labor.

The first thing I tell someone when we start down this road is that if they want all that done it would likely be better to sell the action they have and put all the funds towards one of the boutique actions. It shoots me in the foot a bit as that's $ that could of potentially gone in my pocket. I balance it with knowing in the end the customer is better off and I can usually make more money because I'm not tying up two machines all day for only one job.

I agree completely.

Merry Xmas.

C

 

[ken snyder]

Chad and Kevin thank you for your threads. I'm just gramps down the street. We are all familiar with tolerance stacking, sometimes they stack favorably and sometimes they do not. During a rebarrel it could very easily be a fifty dollar issue or an" if you want this thing to shoot it will have to be sent out for a total attitude adjustment." Every once in a while I need to send stuff out to another gunsmith that has different capabilities than I have. Thank you for pipeing up.

 

[asa]

I have a question for the more experianced smiths regaurding the custom actions no one in particular have you guys ever checked all the tolerances on these or just except them as is, just curious if a custom action every requires extra work. thank you and have a merry christmas

 

[Kevin Cram]

I've checked a few custom actions. Most were very good. I had a few that took a couple of thousandths to clean up but I'd rather not mention any custom action names.

 

[ken snyder]

Hello asa. Tolerances are a manufacturing standard meaning the part will be between a minimum and a maximum. Tolerances in proprietary manufacturing are not universal, unless there is a standard it needs to apply to. It is the same thing as trying to apply Chevrolet engine clearances to a Ford or both to a Hamilton Beach blender. Correct right on the money tolerances are aimed at everything from interference fit to sloppy rattle around. Way too often parts that are within tolerances wont even fit together to make an assembly. Blue printing an action is all about putting those tolerances together in a way that yields results. It is also the difference between a good machineist and a real gunsmith. I have seen only 2 custom name actions go back to the manufacturer and have yet to see anything more than a mumbly gripe from people that got an honest what they paid for-- well except for the jerks, but they're another common story that everybody gets to deal with.

 

[J E Custom]

I think that there is a point of diminishing returns when blueprinting an action.

If everything about the action is bad then It will be cheaper to go with a custom action.

If the factory action just needs the basic truing (Action face squaring, bolt recoil lug squaring,
Bolt fact squaring, lug lapping) the cost is not prohibitive and with all of the other parts that
you already have (Floor metal, mag follower, mag box, trigger) It is a good way to go.

If you have to go with a full blown action truing Including all of the bolt work mentioned then
the custom action becomes the best deal, But keep in mind that all custom actions are not
perfect and sometimes needs some truing and even though they should not need any work
they need to be checked.

I do not recommend spending over $200.00 to $300.00 dollars on a factory action because of total investment.

No matter what type of action you use it is very hard to get your money out of a custom rifle,
So build it to keep and you can't go wrong,

The best time to use a factory action for a custom build is when you have a rifle that just won't
shoot and you don't use it and don't feel like pawning it of on some unsuspecting person. you
can spend 2 or 300.00 hundred dollars on the action and with a custom barrel and end up with
a fine rifle for about the cost of just the custom action and all of the other parts to complete it.

And the answer to your question = If you want an accurate rifle, a trued action is very important
just like the quality of the smithing and the quality of the barrel and stock.

It's like the bad apple, If there is one bad component it can spoil the hole rifle.

J E CUSTOM

 

[ken snyder]

I'm the same way in thought and practice. If an action requires more than than a basic work-up We look for a different one. Every once in a while I run into a person that wants every thing to be a full meal deal. I've noticed that they never pay too much for what makes them happy but have always paid too much for something that does not. Kinda funny, my buddy RIchard got an old Ruger that had been ran over by a truck full of fire wood. He straightened the action in a vice, put it in an old stock and it shoots surprisingly well, but I wouldn't recommend the Goodyear method of blueprinting.

 

[shortgrass]

Won't use actions/rifles/any firearm run over by a truck, been in a fire, got a bulged barrel (shotgun, rifle, handgun/revolver), had the barrel pealed like a banana, or welded back together or any other disaster one might think of. Life's just to short to put ones self in such a position of liability!

 

[ken snyder]

Shortgrass you are 100% correct about not useing damaged actions they have an extreme liability potential. No need for a lawyer on that one, just sign your life over on the dotted line it will be cheaper that way. In defense of Richard I need to say that if you knew who the rifle belongs to and by his request you would turn blue in the face and pass out. A liability issue in this isolated and unique case is less than impossible. But any other time not even with a 10 foot pole.

 

[eddybo]

I am just a hobby smith, but I am not convinced of the benefits of a complete true job. I have been told many times that if it is a good barrel with good bedding and consistant fire control, it will shoot. Even not being fully convinced of the benefits, I do not think it will hurt a thing to do it. So, I make sure the barrel shoulder is true to the chamber, surface grind a factory recoil lug, use a PTG kit with tight fitting bushings to true the front of the lugs and action face and recut the threads to .010 over, I true the lugs in the lathe and lap them in, and then true the bolt face using a mandrel that screws into the action threads. It is just my opinion but If the boltface is true with the action face, the recoil lug is square, and the chamber is true with the shoulder then nothing else needs be done.

 

[J E Custom]

To add to this thread: I have a habit of inspecting an action before anything is decided or
work starts because some actions do not need a full blown blue printing performed on them
and if it is not nessary don't spend the time and the customers money.

I do find that "most" actions need to be squared at the face. lots need lugs trued and
lapped. some bolt lugs that are almost 100% only need lapping. almost all bolt faces need
to be trued/squared.Receivers that need to be reamed for a better bolt fit or new bolt are
fewer still.

So I disassemble all actions and inspect for this reason.

I have found very few actions that could not be improved in some way including the custom
actions. So I don't assume it is good until I inspect it.

Some of this precision may not be nessary but when all of the components are as precise as
possible and all other components are done correctly(Stock fit,pillar bedding,floating and
load development )the rifles are very forgiving and will shoot well beyond most shooters
abilities.(At least mine).

J E CUSTOM

 

[blipelt]

I guess I look at things a little different than most. One I want a good gunsmith, now to keep my gunsmith working I want to put as much money in THEIR pocket as possible. My smith is a gunsmith/machinist/welder. He can come to work with me and make more money, and not have the overhead(shop,equipment etc.). So I look at things that pay him, labor etc. He gets a defiance action body, a PTG bolt, and assembles the action to his specs. I get a nice action with alot of extras for around $850. Nate gets to charge labor. Custom rifles are expensive, but your gunsmith gets a small part of it.


Brent