Inconsistent seating depth

[Pdvdh]

Not making a lot of sense out of this. The bullet is deformed with no gun powder in the case, and with a case neck ID only 0.0015" smaller in diameter than the bullet OD. And you say that little to no press handle force is required to collapse the bullet jackets while seating bullets? How can that be? The bullet jackets aren't paper thin. If you're collapsing the nose area of the bullet jacket, there's a restriction present somewhere or another that's increasing the force applied by the seating stem onto the bullet jacket.

All you've got to do is analyze that until you figure it out. Certainly, customizing a seater stem to match the form of the bullet will help spread the contact force out to a greater bearing surface against the bullet jacket. But it should not have to be a mold/glove perfect fit.

Place some Imperial Sizing Wax or some Hornady Unique sizing wax on the interior of your case necks using a Q-tip prior to seating your bullets. Remove the excess wax with a fresh Q-tip. If you're still deforming bullets, then you'll need to identify the cause (physical interference) of the excessive bullet seating force. And there aren't a whole lot of possibilities. There will be a very straightforward explanation, that rises nowhere near the level of rocket science.

 

[TheDerkster]

Wedging. You're not seating bullet bearing into neck/shoulder junction(donut), are you?
How high on the ogive is the stem contact? like 1/3up from tip, 1/2, 3/4?

About .425 inches from the tip on an overall bullet length of 1.645, so roughly 1/4. The mark is roughly 1/16 long which is why I get such long base to ogive measurements because thats how far the seater is crushing the bullet before it continues to push.

Also, its not doing it right away neccessarily. In example, if I pull the round back out right after I got it started, there may not be a mark, as I continue to push, it gets a little more prevalent. This makes since as there should be more friction as more of the neck begans to contact.

An yes, the bullet is seated pretty deep. Its a 195 grain 7mm bullet. Thats long and the freebore requires me to seat at 2.1755'' for a .020 jump. I neck sized with the 7mm SAUM FL die with a custom expander ball i made to size it right for the trimmer i have. So there isn't really a "Donut" left if Im understanding right. I did have a significant one right after I pushed the shoulders back though. The seating process is very smooth however. Its not like its easy and then gets hard suddenly. Its fairly easy going.

 

[barefooter56]

How far above the shell holder is the sliding sleeve ?

 

[TheDerkster]

Not making a lot of sense out of this. The bullet is deformed with no gun powder in the case, and with a case neck ID only 0.0015" smaller in diameter than the bullet OD. And you say that little to no press handle force is required to collapse the bullet jackets while seating bullets? How can that be? The bullet jackets aren't paper thin. If you're collapsing the nose area of the bullet jacket, there's a restriction present somewhere or another that's increasing the force applied by the seating stem onto the bullet jacket.

All you've got to do is analyze that until you figure it out. Certainly, customizing a seater stem to match the form of the bullet will help spread the contact force out to a greater bearing surface against the bullet jacket. But it should not have to be a mold/glove perfect fit.

Place some Imperial Sizing Wax or some Hornady Unique sizing wax on the interior of your case necks using a Q-tip prior to seating your bullets. Remove the excess wax with a fresh Q-tip. If you're still deforming bullets, then you'll need to identify the cause (physical interference) of the excessive bullet seating force. And there aren't a whole lot of possibilities. There will be a very straightforward explanation, that rises nowhere near the level of rocket science.

I agree. I dont lube my bullets or necks prior to seating. But should I really have to? Especially with that little of neck tension? I did lube a few just to see, but it didn't seem to help much. I just measured that expander ball again, and its .282. Still only .002 of neck tension.

I may try the Unique since i have it on hand the next round of loads just to double check.

 

[TheDerkster]

How far above the shell holder is the sliding sleeve ?

The shell holder contacts the sleeve and moves the sleeve with the case the last 1/4 inch of the stroke. The stem is free floating. It can move where it wants, and the spring inside the die only pushes down the sleeve that the brass goes into.

Is that what you meant?

 

[can1010]

is that a new formed unshot case. asking because I had the same problem with the 170 .277 eol. on new cases that I formed. I have .002 neck tension annealing solved the problem. forming the case work hardened it.

 

[TheDerkster]

is that a new formed unshot case. asking because I had the same problem with the 170 .277 eol. on new cases that I formed. I have .002 neck tension annealing solved the problem. forming the case work hardened it.

They were annealed right after all the forming. I was worried about cracked necks so I went ahead and did it.

 

[royinidaho]

TheDerkster, I get your results when seating a heavily compressed load with a certain bullet.

Instead of a wide 'smudge' I get a very sharp line more like a "cut" or a very small groove.

Upon removal of the cartridge from the seating die, the sleeve actually grabs the bullet and pulls it out of the neck screwing up the seating depth.

I've lapped the sleeve but not yet sufficiently.

The dies are custom Hornady in 375 Allen Mag.

Note that this grabbing doesn't occur with any lead core bullet I've loaded only these uniquely designed monos I'm playing with. I'm thinking that if the sleeve acted similar with jacketed bullets the results would be more similar to what you are getting.

 

[barefooter56]

Derkster,
Yes. Have you called John yet? That may help you solve this issue a lot faster.

 

[FEENIX]

Derkster,
Yes. Have you called John yet? That may help you solve this issue a lot faster.

lightbulbAgreed!lightbulb

 

[TheDerkster]

lightbulbAgreed!lightbulb

Yep! For sure. Im gonna send in brass, bullets, and die. I think they are gonna lap it in and test just to make sure.

 

[toliver]

Is that a mark in the side of the case near the shoulder?

 

[TheDerkster]

Is that a mark in the side of the case near the shoulder?

There is several. The lines on the shoulder are wrinkles from pushing the shoulder back. Some of the cases did that, some didn't.

The line right below the shoulder/body junction is a dent from the same process. It'll iron out when I fire it with full pressure loads. These have only been fired with COW as of now.

 

[FEENIX]

Yep! For sure. Im gonna send in brass, bullets, and die. I think they are gonna lap it in and test just to make sure.

That's the ticket, I'm pretty sure John will do whatever it takes to make it right for you.

Cheers!

Ed