Improving the 308 Win performance

[akmtnhnt]

Certainly not going to read 92 pages.....however that said, powder performance and bullet BC can only go so far with the current .308 SAAMI specs. Think about what SIG has done with the 277 Fury. Basically same case dimensions as the 308/762x51 yet operates safely at a much higher pressure level due to its structural design of the casing itself. Magnum cartridges + pressure levels in a std cartridge,

SAAMI puts the 308 at 62kpsi. Especially with SRP brass, you should be able to safely bring that up to 65k, which isn't a lot more, but some. But the modern powders plus high BC changes is a lot downrange. When you look at what the OP is doing, you compare that with a single base powder and something like the old corlokt, you have hundreds of yards difference in effective range. Where you previously needed to step up to the -06, the 308 can now do it.
Of course that can be said of almost anything not made in the last 15 years. The -06 does 1960's winmag stuff and the winmag rum stuff and so on.

 

[223Rem]

SAAMI puts the 308 at 62kpsi. Especially with SRP brass, you should be able to safely bring that up to 65k, which isn't a lot more, but some. But the modern powders plus high BC changes is a lot downrange. When you look at what the OP is doing, you compare that with a single base powder and something like the old corlokt, you have hundreds of yards difference in effective range. Where you previously needed to step up to the -06, the 308 can now do it.
Of course that can be said of almost anything not made in the last 15 years. The -06 does 1960's winmag stuff and the winmag rum stuff and so on.

Like I said, what you are trying to do with small rifle primer brass is to take the 308 to extreme limits with less reward and more risk. The 277 Fury operates at 80,000 PSI...and that is in gas guns. Just imagine what a 80,000 PSI chambered 308 could do safely.

Manufacturers have improved powders and bullets design that have provided substantial added performance, but nothing like a panty dropper.

No one has ever thought about case design, which is now the weakest link.

Modern day actions stand withstand 100K PSI, but we live in a litigious world, so the lawyers and actuaries say no.

 

[Turpentine21]

Hold up a second. I absolutely don't want to detract from this man's accomplishment at all. But, holding 12 feet high? That's not even close to the holdover for a shot like that.

Shooting 175gr SMK federal ammo (a fairly standard load) with a 200 yard zero results in a drop of 80 feet at 1350 yards. Maybe he dialed his turret to max and still needed 12 feet of holdover, but that's not how this reads to me.

I saw an interview with him on the military channel describing the shot. He did exactly as you described. He dialed out his max elevation and then added 12 to 13 feet of elevation to his holdover and put in some Kentucky windage as well. He described the shot as a stroke of luck. A one in a million and admitted that he didn't know if he could reproduce the results. It simply wasn't that particular insurgent's day.

 

[marksman1941]

I saw an interview with him on the military channel describing the shot. He did exactly as you described. He dialed out his max elevation and then added 12 to 13 feet of elevation to his holdover and put in some Kentucky windage as well. He described the shot as a stroke of luck. A one in a million and admitted that he didn't know if he could reproduce the results. It simply wasn't that particular insurgent's day.

I can 100% buy that version of it

 

[nralifer]

Anyone know why Lapua paused SRP brass production and how long this will last? I didn't realize this.

My guess it has something to do with the Ukraine war.

 

[Maol]

Yes that is what they said. Palma production is suspended until further notice due to military commitments.

I bought some Lapua LRP for GP hunting, and Peterson SRP for LR hunting. Both using Monos, I use them in different rifles.

Semiautomatic stuff I use LC brass.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Both Alpha and Starline have been available in SRP.

 

[maximini14]

I have been using for years the 150 BD and BD2 bullets with MVs of 2920 from a 20"barrel and 3050 from a 24" barrel using Leverevolution which outperforms most 3006 loads. Have killed African Plains Game and a large Alaskan Coastal Black Bear all with single shot DRT kills. The attachment is a JBM trajectory calculation of our 175 gr BD2 bullet propelled from a 24" barrel which I think is entirely achievable for the 308 Win at 4500 ft elevation, which is not an unusual elevation to hunt Elk. The higher you go the better. At 900 yds that bullet still has 1300 ft# of energy snd is traveling at 1836 fps which is at least 100 fps more than is required to get it to expand. What makes this possible, and it is the point of the thread, is using a bullet with a high enough BC that will expand reliably at 1700 fps impact. That has already been done by a friend of mine using our 195 gr bullet with a higher BC from a 300WM at 1225 yds.

I loaded up some 150gr Hornady soft points with Leverevolution powder and start load was 46 grs then 1gr increments to 49 grs.
Shot 4 fouling shots of Armscor fmj(2.25" grp) then shot 3 rnds of 46 gr load...sweet 3/8" group at 2715 fps out of 20" brl SFAR. !!!
Subsequent test loads produced larger groups of 1.25" and the 49 gr load barely reached 2800 fps...no way was Leverevolution powder goin to hit 2950fps.
Who says the Ruger SFAR isn't accurate???
It shoots factory Norma 150gr soft points into half inch groups at 2775fps...what's not to like!!!

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I loaded up some 150gr Hornady soft points with Leverevolution powder and start load was 46 grs then 1gr increments to 49 grs.
Shot 4 fouling shots of Armscor fmj(2.25" grp) then shot 3 rnds of 46 gr load...sweet 3/8" group at 2715 fps out of 20" brl SFAR. !!!
Subsequent test loads produced larger groups of 1.25" and the 49 gr load barely reached 2800 fps...no way was Leverevolution powder goin to hit 2950fps.
Who says the Ruger SFAR isn't accurate???
It shoots factory Norma 150gr soft points into half inch groups at 2775fps...what's not to like!!!

Haven't read back on the entire conversation so if you have tried Hodgdon CFE223 I apologize but if you haven't you may get the velocity you seek there.
Goodluck!

 

[JAYgs8163]

I loaded up some 150gr Hornady soft points with Leverevolution powder and start load was 46 grs then 1gr increments to 49 grs.
Shot 4 fouling shots of Armscor fmj(2.25" grp) then shot 3 rnds of 46 gr load...sweet 3/8" group at 2715 fps out of 20" brl SFAR. !!!
Subsequent test loads produced larger groups of 1.25" and the 49 gr load barely reached 2800 fps...no way was Leverevolution powder goin to hit 2950fps.
Who says the Ruger SFAR isn't accurate???
It shoots factory Norma 150gr soft points into half inch groups at 2775fps...what's not to like!!!

Must be the projectile your shooting. I got up to 3078 FPS with the 150 Badlands and 49.5 grains from a 20" barrel. I backed off to 48 with great groups.

 

[nralifer]

I loaded up some 150gr Hornady soft points with Leverevolution powder and start load was 46 grs then 1gr increments to 49 grs.
Shot 4 fouling shots of Armscor fmj(2.25" grp) then shot 3 rnds of 46 gr load...sweet 3/8" group at 2715 fps out of 20" brl SFAR. !!!
Subsequent test loads produced larger groups of 1.25" and the 49 gr load barely reached 2800 fps...no way was Leverevolution powder goin to hit 2950fps.
Who says the Ruger SFAR isn't accurate???
It shoots factory Norma 150gr soft points into half inch groups at 2775fps...what's not to like!!!

I don't know what to tell you except that your barrel may be slow. I have two 20" 308Win barrels and can reach 2920+ fps from both using LVR and both large and small rifle brass with a jump of 0.025-0.030" without pressure signs. Have for 4-5 years. One is a 1:10 and the other is 1:9 twist.

 

[BillLarson]

I loaded up some 150gr Hornady soft points with Leverevolution powder and start load was 46 grs then 1gr increments to 49 grs.
Shot 4 fouling shots of Armscor fmj(2.25" grp) then shot 3 rnds of 46 gr load...sweet 3/8" group at 2715 fps out of 20" brl SFAR. !!!
Subsequent test loads produced larger groups of 1.25" and the 49 gr load barely reached 2800 fps...no way was Leverevolution powder goin to hit 2950fps.
Who says the Ruger SFAR isn't accurate???
It shoots factory Norma 150gr soft points into half inch groups at 2775fps...what's not to like!!!

Wrong Bullet....

 

[wvbearhunter]

Shell Shock Technologies is "supposed" to be coming out with NAS(3) 308 brass that is capable of withstanding 15% more pressure than commercial 308 brass. I have used some of their 9mm and 300blk brass to push the limits of what can normally be accomplished. In 9mm I was pushing a 115 grain FMJ-FP in my Sig 226 to 1450 with no pressure issues however I did add a heavier recoil spring and in 300blk I was pushing a 125 grain SST to 2465 fps with no issues.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Shell Shock Technologies is "supposed" to be coming out with NAS(3) 308 brass that is capable of withstanding 15% more pressure than commercial 308 brass. I have used some of their 9mm and 300blk brass to push the limits of what can normally be accomplished. In 9mm I was pushing a 115 grain FMJ-FP in my Sig 226 to 1450 with no pressure issues however I did add a heavier recoil spring and in 300blk I was pushing a 125 grain SST to 2465 fps with no issues.

Question now becomes if the primer can handle it or does that not come into play? Flowback, piercing, etc…..