Improving the 308 Win performance

[Shane Lindsey]

There's a youtube video. Gilliland admits he didn't expect to hit him, just supress.

Totally off the subject of this thread.

308 is great...not so much...There are more effecient, faster, less drift, less drop cartridges out there, but this is about making it mo betta...

Yes I have one and always will...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Sure there are other cartridges better at somethings like most everything in life. I think for what it's capabilities are and it's barrel life, it's formidable. Especially for the average hunter in the central to east part of America. Bullets from 125 to 200 plus in weight, varmint to bonded, on most Gun shop shelfs, relatively easy to load, tons of information on loading, military loads etc. It is a handy caliber with modest recoil and with the right bullet respectfully capable.

 

[Maol]

...Especially for the average hunter in the central to east part of America. Bullets from 125 to 200 plus in weight, varmint to bonded, on most Gun shop shelves, relatively easy to load, tons of information on loading, military loads etc. It is a handy caliber with modest recoil and with the right bullet respectfully capable.

I would expand the '308 Market' to more than eastern hunters. In the west I think you be hard pressed to find many without at least one. Yes they almost always have something else too, but I would say that for most American hunters the .308 is ubiquitous at this point.

 

[greenejc]

Sure there are other cartridges better at somethings like most everything in life. I think for what it's capabilities are and it's barrel life, it's formidable. Especially for the average hunter in the central to east part of America. Bullets from 125 to 200 plus in weight, varmint to bonded, on most Gun shop shelfs, relatively easy to load, tons of information on loading, military loads etc. It is a handy caliber with modest recoil and with the right bullet respectfully capable.

The .308 Win is a very good, very versatile round. It just isn't a good round for shots past about 1,000 yards. I own three of them. But I also own several 30-06's and a couple of 300 winmags. If I want more than it offers, I don't try to make it into an -06. I just get out the -06.

 

[Maol]

I don't try to make it into an -06. I just get out the -06.

Yep. With new powders and bullets that is less often for me.

In fact the new kids also make the 6.5s better, & the 7s better too. The same could be said for the 06 family, the Win Mags, the Weatherbys, and every other member of the 'over the hill gang'.

The 308 is sort of in a sweet spot though. It's case design is hard to improve on, and it maybe the most efficient case of all the 'old guard'. Like the 06 its been killing stuff for a long time, just not over a century like the 06 and some others. Like some of the best of the oldies it doesn't have a pointless obsolete belt either.

The 308 Win ain't the best at everything it excels at, accept maybe efficient versatility. From a 110 Vmax @ 3300 fps, to a 220 SMK @ 2500 fps (and still going 1500 fps @ 1,000) it seems pretty versatile to me, and pretty hard to beat in a short action with a 20-22" barrel & <50 grains of powder to boot.

Just this thread on ways to improve it, is now over 90 pages long. Admittedly not all of it's been really very helpful, since the idea of its being made even more capable seems to trigger a lot of folks. It's inspired some crazy stuff here, youda thought Trump invented it or something.

 

[CBH Australia]

I would expand the '308 Market' to more than eastern hunters. In the west I think you be hard pressed to find many without at least one. Yes they almost always have something else too, but I would say that for most American hunters the .308 is ubiquitous at this point.

I actually thought from all my reading that .30 ought Six was the ubiquitous American cartridge.

I can see how .308 gained popularity in the AR10 models too.

Availability is it's sting point I think and it's versatility makes it a desirable all rounder.

.223 and .308 would have to make up a large number of the modern Bolt Action rifles in Australia for hunting and target shooting with shooters dabbling in other cartridges for specific uses or specific characteristics.

I've heard the .308 can be given the 40° Ackley shoulder but doesn't necessarily get the gain or advantage that some versions did.

Im a fan of my .280a.i. but if I downsize my needs the .280ai would go before the .308

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I would expand the '308 Market' to more than eastern hunters. In the west I think you be hard pressed to find many without at least one. Yes they almost always have something else too, but I would say that for most American hunters the .308 is ubiquitous at this point.

When talking about the area of America, the thought was distance. Average shots in my neck of the words are between 50 and 200 give or take. An open field or power line/pipeline cut may give more but most keep it well under 400 yards I suspect. Never did a study but from hunting for many years and talking to folks that seems consistent even in flat land in close states, (if permitted to use a centerfire rifle to hunt.) This used to be Ohio rules, if memory serves. It would be interesting to know the average shot distance for area's. Here it is preference more than anything, taking into consideration brush and or open terrain which in my experience here, still holds true to the numbers I previously gave.

 

[Spoonbill]

I have been using for years the 150 BD and BD2 bullets with MVs of 2920 from a 20"barrel and 3050 from a 24" barrel using Leverevolution which outperforms most 3006 loads. Have killed African Plains Game and a large Alaskan Coastal Black Bear all with single shot DRT kills. The attachment is a JBM trajectory calculation of our 175 gr BD2 bullet propelled from a 24" barrel which I think is entirely achievable for the 308 Win at 4500 ft elevation, which is not an unusual elevation to hunt Elk. The higher you go the better. At 900 yds that bullet still has 1300 ft# of energy snd is traveling at 1836 fps which is at least 100 fps more than is required to get it to expand. What makes this possible, and it is the point of the thread, is using a bullet with a high enough BC that will expand reliably at 1700 fps impact. That has already been done by a friend of mine using our 195 gr bullet with a higher BC from a 300WM at 1225 yds.

Thank you the solid, fact based intel, Sir. I am new to 308 Reloading Venture; could you please expand on the Bullet Brand? Unfamiliar with the BD and BD2 deasignation.

 

[akmtnhnt]

Thank you the solid, fact based intel, Sir. I am new to 308 Reloading Venture; could you please expand on the Bullet Brand? Unfamiliar with the BD and BD2 deasignation.

Bulldozer-2 Archives - Badlands precision, LLC

badlandsprecision.com

 

[nralifer]

Thank you the solid, fact based intel, Sir. I am new to 308 Reloading Venture; could you please expand on the Bullet Brand? Unfamiliar with the BD and BD2 deasignation.

The bullets referred to are made by Badlands Precision. BD stands for Bulldozer which is the hunting line of bullets they produce. They have the highest BC in their weight category, have highly engineered expanding hollow points tipped with aluminum tips designed to disengage from the bullet reliably at impact, and expand by petaling down to 1700 fps impact velocity. They also are very penetrating all copper bullets that will out penetrate any bullet in their weight class. The 150 gr 308BD can penetrate over 30 inches in a fully expanded state. First round dead-right-there kill percentages are much higher than lead core bullets. They hit with more energy at greater distances because of the high BC, and penetrate deeper because of the tough copper construction, low drag and high weight retention after impact, retaining typically 90-95% of their original weight.

 

[nralifer]

The .308 Win is a very good, very versatile round. It just isn't a good round for shots past about 1,000 yards. I own three of them. But I also own several 30-06's and a couple of 300 winmags. If I want more than it offers, I don't try to make it into an -06. I just get out the -06.

Lets see dome of your data on the -06. Be specific about brass, powder and charge, barrel length and bullet and its BC and weight.

 

[DustThroughaFan]

Hold up a second. I absolutely don't want to detract from this man's accomplishment at all. But, holding 12 feet high? That's not even close to the holdover for a shot like that.

Shooting 175gr SMK federal ammo (a fairly standard load) with a 200 yard zero results in a drop of 80 feet at 1350 yards. Maybe he dialed his turret to max and still needed 12 feet of holdover, but that's not how this reads to me.

I believe that was the case. I remember watching an interview with him and he said he dialed all he had, held over what he thought he needed and let it fly. He hand his spotter were both equally amazed that he hit him.

 

[Hard H2O]

The 308 is sort of in a sweet spot though. It's case design is hard to improve on, and it maybe the most efficient case of all the 'old guard'. Like the 06 its been killing stuff for a long time, just not over a century like the 06 and some others.

Yeah, It has only been around for 71 years.

 

[nralifer]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

NEW LIGHT FOR CALIBER .308 BULLET. The Badlands Precision 136gr 308 Bulldozer-2 (308 BD2 136 gr) See the photos below. The bullet is intended for long range Deer sized game (100-800 yds) and intermediate range Elk sized game (100-500 yds) as well as African plains game (100-500) and short range Bear hunting (100-250) and any other game that strikes your fancy, Hogs, head shot Turkey, Coyotes, Caribou, baited Leopard, Pronghorn, etc. Using Leverevolution powder (LVR) the bullet can safely be propelled at 3300 fps from a 24" barrel. Twist required is 1:11.5. COAL = 2.950", LVR charge is 51.5 gr, brass used was Lapua Palma (SRP) using a CCI 450 primer. Speed measured with a Magnetospeed chrono. The trajectory charts are from JBM ballistics at 1600 ft altitude and 5000 ft altitude. The expanded bullet is through a 10% clear gel at an impact velocity of 2301 fps. Bullet length is 1.300". G1BC=0.428 and G7BC=0.218. Wt retention was 96.6% with penetration of a total of 26", 16" through 10% and the remainder was 10" through 20% after penetrating the 10% gel. Bullet shed one petal after penetrating 21". Being a .308 caliber it obviously can be used in larger 30 cal cases (30-06, 300 WM, 300 WSM, 300 PRC, 300 Norma etc). I think it would be ideal in my 300 WSM. I think I could get 3550 + fps from that rifle. Additional speed is fully taken advantage of by it's BC which is higher than all mono bullets and most lead core bullets in the 150 gr weight class. The all copper construction means the bullet can take the stresses of high speed flight and impact.