Improving the 308 Win performance

[nralifer]

I finally got out Tuesday shooting but ended up getting stuck in the south desert. Luckily some friends came and got me out. So if I can add these correctly to the post with load data and velocity.. These were all annealed, shoulder bumped, trimmed, and loaded with LVR and CCIBR2s. Bullet was a 195ELDM all were seated to 2.830 but I think on my earlier post I was getting compression on the last 4 bullets and they started seating longer out to 2.835. Also when I checked the shoulder on these cases the first 6 or 7 had not even expanded all the way. The range was from 1.93 to 1.94 inches. 1.94 is what I get with the .420 Hornady gauge when measured for regular expansion of factor rounds. CF223 would always push the shoulder out to the 1.94 measurement. I did not get the pictures in order to match the charge weights but it was basically slowest to fastest. Charges are as followed
46.0= 2698fps, 46.3=2707, 46.6=2711, 47.0=2713, 47.3=2717, 47.6=2717, 48=2737, 48.4=2777, 48.8=2810 49.1=2823.
I finally had really faint ejector swipes starting at 48.4. 49.1 game me a little and it was not really even noticeable bolt lift. SO FOR ME...and my rifle I'm going back to the 47 to 47.6 area. This seem to be a good flat spot again. I also had a flat spot at or around 2650. Data was in an earlier post. I have not got pics of the cases but I did remove the primer from the highest load and it had some flatting of what I have noticed as flatting. It also had the ejector swipe and this is the one I had a little to none noticeable bolt life difference. The primer pocket on this highest charge is still not loose and this is a 5th firing on these cases. So for me LVR is turning out to be a win over CF223. I just hope it hold its consistency in hotter temps. Its not a temp stable powder but for a 195grn bullet moving along at 2700FPS out of a 308 case. That pretty sweet. Now to put this in a little more perspective and I know the match bullets are supposed to punch paper but...at 1000yrds, this is coming off the applied ballistic app calculated data, 1000yrds, 1505fps/981ft/lbs...910yrds 1600fps/1108ft/lbs.....enough for me for mule deer.....1801fps/1405ft/lbs of energy. Enough for an elk. Actually for some 1200ft/lbs of energy/1664fps at 850yrds. My next move is to find what charge weight I want to load these at. 47.3grns I'm thinking. Right in the middle of the flat spot. I would of liked to see how these done actually on paper but since I had my scope already zeroed I was rock shooting out to 300yrds with these.

Great data! Enough detail that I will try this in my rifle using our 195BD2 bullet. Just a couple of questions. How long a barrel were you using and how far off the lands were your bullets? I would like to replicate the bullet jump as closely as possible since the ogival lengths are different. Again, thank you for sharing. Your speeds are excellent and I would agree that 47.3 gr of LVR is a safe load for the components you have chosen.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I finally got out Tuesday shooting but ended up getting stuck in the south desert. Luckily some friends came and got me out. So if I can add these correctly to the post with load data and velocity.. These were all annealed, shoulder bumped, trimmed, and loaded with LVR and CCIBR2s. Bullet was a 195ELDM all were seated to 2.830 but I think on my earlier post I was getting compression on the last 4 bullets and they started seating longer out to 2.835. Also when I checked the shoulder on these cases the first 6 or 7 had not even expanded all the way. The range was from 1.93 to 1.94 inches. 1.94 is what I get with the .420 Hornady gauge when measured for regular expansion of factor rounds. CF223 would always push the shoulder out to the 1.94 measurement. I did not get the pictures in order to match the charge weights but it was basically slowest to fastest. Charges are as followed
46.0= 2698fps, 46.3=2707, 46.6=2711, 47.0=2713, 47.3=2717, 47.6=2717, 48=2737, 48.4=2777, 48.8=2810 49.1=2823.
I finally had really faint ejector swipes starting at 48.4. 49.1 game me a little and it was not really even noticeable bolt lift. SO FOR ME...and my rifle I'm going back to the 47 to 47.6 area. This seem to be a good flat spot again. I also had a flat spot at or around 2650. Data was in an earlier post. I have not got pics of the cases but I did remove the primer from the highest load and it had some flatting of what I have noticed as flatting. It also had the ejector swipe and this is the one I had a little to none noticeable bolt life difference. The primer pocket on this highest charge is still not loose and this is a 5th firing on these cases. So fo me LVR is turning out to be a win over CF223. I just hope it hold its consistency in hotter temps. Its not a temp stable powder but for a 195grn bullet moving along at 2700FPS out of a 308 case. That pretty sweet. Now to put this in a little more perspective and I know the match bullets are supposed to punch paper but...at 1000yrds, this is coming off the applied ballistic app calculated data, 1000yrds, 1505fps/981ft/lbs...910yrds 1600fps/1108ft/lbs.....enough for me for mule deer.....1801fps/1405ft/lbs of energy. Enough for an elk. Actually for some 1200ft/lbs of energy/1664fps at 850yrds. My next move is to find what charge weight I want to load these at. 47.3grns I'm thinking. Right in the middle of the flat spot. I would of liked to see how these done actually on paper but since I had my scope already zeroed I was rock shooting out to 300yrds with these.

Nice data. No pressure in cold temperatures means you can at least use them for hunting at that temperature range. I'm not familiar with that powder but hopefully its temp stable. Anyone had the chance to try StaBall match or StaBall H.D.? I had read it didn't work well in 308 Win.
I have a load for 130 Gamechangers in 6.5 cm with original StaBall that does well. Not high jacking the post. Just wondering if any of you here had tried any of the StaBalls in 308 Winchester.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Nice data. No pressure in cold temperatures means you can at least use them for hunting at that temperature range. I'm not familiar with that powder but hopefully its temp stable. Anyone had the chance to try StaBall match or StaBall H.D.? I had read it didn't work well in 308 Win.
I have a load for 130 Gamechangers in 6.5 cm with original StaBall that does well. Not high jacking the post. Just wondering if any of you here had tried any of the StaBalls in 308 Winchester.

Nobody has been able to find those other Staballs to purchase so it can be tested.

 

[nralifer]

Nice data. No pressure in cold temperatures means you can at least use them for hunting at that temperature range. I'm not familiar with that powder but hopefully its temp stable. Anyone had the chance to try StaBall match or StaBall H.D.? I had read it didn't work well in 308 Win.
I have a load for 130 Gamechangers in 6.5 cm with original StaBall that does well. Not high jacking the post. Just wondering if any of you here had tried any of the StaBalls in 308 Winchester.

I have tried StaBall65 in the 308. It gave low speeds. Never reached pressure signs. One thing is that it compresses very well. 54.5 gr which fills the case to half way up the neck, can be compressed with a 150 BD2 to the point the boat tail is at the shoulder body junction, but speed from a 24" barrel is 2950 fps, but 49 gr of LVR from a 20" barrel yields 2920 fps and 3050 fps through the 24" barrel. It may be a bit slow for the 308 Win but works spectacularly well in the 243Win.

 

[JAYgs8163]

@Wachsmann nice write up and thanks for sharing your results.

 

[esorensen]

I finally got out Tuesday shooting but ended up getting stuck in the south desert. Luckily some friends came and got me out. So if I can add these correctly to the post with load data and velocity.. These were all annealed, shoulder bumped, trimmed, and loaded with LVR and CCIBR2s. Bullet was a 195ELDM all were seated to 2.830 but I think on my earlier post I was getting compression on the last 4 bullets and they started seating longer out to 2.835. Also when I checked the shoulder on these cases the first 6 or 7 had not even expanded all the way. The range was from 1.93 to 1.94 inches. 1.94 is what I get with the .420 Hornady gauge when measured for regular expansion of factor rounds. CF223 would always push the shoulder out to the 1.94 measurement. I did not get the pictures in order to match the charge weights but it was basically slowest to fastest. Charges are as followed
46.0= 2698fps, 46.3=2707, 46.6=2711, 47.0=2713, 47.3=2717, 47.6=2717, 48=2737, 48.4=2777, 48.8=2810 49.1=2823.
I finally had really faint ejector swipes starting at 48.4. 49.1 game me a little and it was not really even noticeable bolt lift. SO FOR ME...and my rifle I'm going back to the 47 to 47.6 area. This seem to be a good flat spot again. I also had a flat spot at or around 2650. Data was in an earlier post. I have not got pics of the cases but I did remove the primer from the highest load and it had some flatting of what I have noticed as flatting. It also had the ejector swipe and this is the one I had a little to none noticeable bolt life difference. The primer pocket on this highest charge is still not loose and this is a 5th firing on these cases. So for me LVR is turning out to be a win over CF223. I just hope it hold its consistency in hotter temps. Its not a temp stable powder but for a 195grn bullet moving along at 2700FPS out of a 308 case. That pretty sweet. Now to put this in a little more perspective and I know the match bullets are supposed to punch paper but...at 1000yrds, this is coming off the applied ballistic app calculated data, 1000yrds, 1505fps/981ft/lbs...910yrds 1600fps/1108ft/lbs.....enough for me for mule deer.....1801fps/1405ft/lbs of energy. Enough for an elk. Actually for some 1200ft/lbs of energy/1664fps at 850yrds. My next move is to find what charge weight I want to load these at. 47.3grns I'm thinking. Right in the middle of the flat spot. I would of liked to see how these done actually on paper but since I had my scope already zeroed I was rock shooting out to 300yrds with these.

What brass are you using?

 

[Zymurgist]

If you want to improve the .308 get a 300 WSM.

 

[VinceMule]

Watchman, probably preaching to the choir here, but you need to measure the distance from the lands that you find on that accuracy load. As the throat wears, maintain that distance for accuracy for a long time.

Carbon will be your accuracy killer.

 

[HobieH3]

Haven't seen any mention of the 30-06 in a while. Was that put to bed? I would think that anything you can do with a .308 you could do just a skosh more with an '06.

That said, if I wanted to manufacture a million rifles and a billion rounds, I would definitely pick the .308. Seems like most of the advantages of the .308 only really apply at economies of scale.

 

[JAYgs8163]

.

 

[VinceMule]

The 7/08 and 280 Rem are sleeping GIANTS! While neither is very popular, back in the '80s, we learned the value of 7mm 168g Match kings in the 7/08 with 1/3 the drop AND 1/3rd the WIND Drift of the same weight in the 308. Everyone was dumping their 308's. Then after reading the accuracy load in the nosler manual #4 for the 280 Rem with IMR 7828, Fed 210 primer, 160ish bullets at 2930 fps, I was all over the 280 rem in 700 long actions. The 280 Rem proved to be almost like cheating on the 500 Meter Steel rams with the 168g Sierra MK.

Barrel life on a 7/08 is in the realm of 3000 rounds, while the 308 will do 5000, depending on the powders used.

Gentlemen, I can tell you that a 280 Rem, throated and twisted for a 180g ELD-m with it's .796 BC is a game changer at 2700 fps, with just a smidge of powder on a 25" tube. Some things you just have to experience for yourself or see the results of. This is just simple Physics, of how BC of a bullet matters, especially as you approach yardage of 450 and further.

Having said this, I still have Krieger and X Caliber barrel blanks in 308 ready to be spun on when my current krieger gives up the ghost. IMR XBR 8208 burns super hot and causes lands to walk out in a much more rapid fashion than Ball C2.

There is something about the simplicity of the 308 with a Short freebore Palma chamber that is simply incredible when you sit down and tune loads easily and quickly....pick a bullet. My reamer is a design with zero freebore and around .050 of throat that seats a 169g Sierra perfect at the should-neck junction.

The 169g Sierra is worth building a rifle around, and I hunt with ogive sorted 168g Nosler long range accubonds.

 

[BillLarson]

Watchman, probably preaching to the choir here, but you need to measure the distance from the lands that you find on that accuracy load. As the throat wears, maintain that distance for accuracy for a long time.

Carbon will be your accuracy killer.

True statement..... GM Top Engine Cleaner removes carbon....

 

[Still Learnin']

Brand new to the 308. Purchased an AR10, 16", 1 in 10".
What's the best target load you've worked up for a 16"?
What's the best hunting load for same?

Thanks!!! Love the experience on this forum.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I have tried StaBall65 in the 308. It gave low speeds. Never reached pressure signs. One thing is that it compresses very well. 54.5 gr which fills the case to half way up the neck, can be compressed with a 150 BD2 to the point the boat tail is at the shoulder body junction, but speed from a 24" barrel is 2950 fps, but 49 gr of LVR from a 20" barrel yields 2920 fps and 3050 fps through the 24" barrel. It may be a bit slow for the 308 Win but works spectacularly well in the 243Win.

Thanks
I will try it. 6.5 creed does 3000 plus with a 130 gr. with it in my load also. Hadn't tried it in the 243 but will now.