Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I'd much prefer the 6.5x57AI, or a 6.5x55AI. The 6.5x57AI is nothing but a .257AI necked upto 6.5. Even better would be a 7x57AI (Ackley often said it was his best improved cartridge)
gary
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I'm indecisive. Help me choose a caliber.
- Thread starter junkpile
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I'd much prefer the 6.5x57AI, or a 6.5x55AI. The 6.5x57AI is nothing but a .257AI necked upto 6.5. Even better would be a 7x57AI (Ackley often said it was his best improved cartridge)
gary
Royal Knight
Well-Known Member
If I was gonna go 7x57 ai I would do the 7mm-08 ai
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
If I was gonna go 7x57 ai I would do the 7mm-08 ai
Ackley never did a 7-08AI for starters. But it's also pretty must a waste of time as you won't gain much of anything by improving the case except to stop brass flow. Where as a 7x57AI will pretty much push a 140 grain bullet to about 3200fps with nearly double the barrel life of the other. There's also the 7mm Arch which is pretty much a 6.5x55AI. That one's good for nearly 3100fps as well. Nice thing about the Arch is that you can form the cases out of generic .257 Roberts brass to help make up for the case shrinkage during fire forming. The neck's already too short in the 7-08 before you improve it, and it will shrink that number another .03" when it's done. Meaning a rather dismall barrel life
gary
D
Deleted member 25294
Guest
There have been some good caliber recommendations so far.
In my personal experience the 7mm remington magnum is about the best all around (affordable) long range performer on medium sized game. This is an easy round to load for, inexpensive components, and mild recoil in an 8 pound rifle (feels the same as a 270 WSM). You should easily get 1/2 MOA from a factory Remington 700 rifle in 7mm. Using a 26" barrel I get 3000 fps with 162 hornady amax bullets, at 1000 yards there's still over 1000 ft lbs of energy remaining. Seriously check out the 7mm rem mag.
In my personal experience the 7mm remington magnum is about the best all around (affordable) long range performer on medium sized game. This is an easy round to load for, inexpensive components, and mild recoil in an 8 pound rifle (feels the same as a 270 WSM). You should easily get 1/2 MOA from a factory Remington 700 rifle in 7mm. Using a 26" barrel I get 3000 fps with 162 hornady amax bullets, at 1000 yards there's still over 1000 ft lbs of energy remaining. Seriously check out the 7mm rem mag.
junkpile
Active Member
Given the current discussion, and a few others that I've been reading on over the past weekend, I am leaning towards something in either 6.5 or 7mm. The 7mm Rem Mag catches my attention most, just due to the fact that it's been around for a while. I also like the availability of components for 7mm. I'm guessing I need a 28" or 30" barrel for optimum velocity?
I've never dealt with belted rounds when reloading. Does it really turn out to be any more trouble, or any different than non-belted rounds?
I've never dealt with belted rounds when reloading. Does it really turn out to be any more trouble, or any different than non-belted rounds?
Given the current discussion, and a few others that I've been reading on over the past weekend, I am leaning towards something in either 6.5 or 7mm. The 7mm Rem Mag catches my attention most, just due to the fact that it's been around for a while. I also like the availability of components for 7mm. I'm guessing I need a 28" or 30" barrel for optimum velocity?
I've never dealt with belted rounds when reloading. Does it really turn out to be any more trouble, or any different than non-belted rounds?
A 7 MM Rem was my first elk rifle. From my experience, 26" in a 7-mag barrel is plenty — although I wouldn't cut down a longer barrel if I had one.
I found no meaningful difference due to the belt when reloading for the 7-mag. The cases may EVENTUALLY fail right above the belt because the belt does produce a stress-point, but I wouldn't worry about that for several rounds across the reloading bench.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
nice thing about the Remington 7mm mag is you can find ammo for it in just about every state. Seems to have a pretty good barrel life, and is known to group very well. Yes there are faster 7mm rounds, but the 7mm is about perfect. My only real complaint about the round is the belt, and I've learned to live with the belt thru the years. If you don't like the belt, then look at the .280 remington or the 7x57AI. With the 7x57AI, all you do is fire factory 7x57 Mauser rounds thru it. I also mentioned the .300WSM in the past, but the ammo is kinda steep in price, and not to be found everywhere. If the rifle is a long action, I also wouldn't rule out the .270 Winchester. For me it would either be a 7x57AI or a .308 Norma mag without hesitation.
gary
gary
Broz
Well-Known Member
I'm looking for some input on caliber selection for my first long range setup. I currently shoot a 308 win at distances of less than 500 yards. The rifle is way too light for me to get anything at extended ranges done with it, and it's a Ruger, so I'm really not expecting phenomenal accuracy out of it.
I'm thinking that I want to use a Savage as a donor. I prefer short actions, but may be willing to work with a long action. I will be using this for fun and for deer hunting, and I'm planning to build something in the style of the Noreen ULR or the CheyTac Intervention. Sure, they're ugly. But I just like them. Anyway, I want a vertical grip, and will be making the stock. Planning for something around 12 or 15 lbs because I don't handle recoil well anymore, and I'm planning on it to enhance my stability. Have a Vari-X 4 tactical 4.5-14x to mount on it until I select something better.
So, on to my actual question...
I want to be able to shoot out to about 1000 yards or more for fun. I won't be shooting anything bigger than a whitetail with it, and that will likely be at no more than 800 yards. I was orignally thinking of going with a 243 or 308, but I'm not sure I trust the downrange energy on them. Any other 6mm suggestions that would be effective and not too problematic? It gets windy around here sometimes. I was also considering 300wm. I was considering 338 Lapua at one point, but I'm not sure I want to mess with it right now. Was also considering 270, but not sure that it will do what I want.
Also, what are your barrel length and twist recommendations for the recommended calibers. I'm open to ideas for other calibers as well. But the caliber needs to be flexible and easy to find components for.
Yes, I reload. Yes, this is my first post, and I've been reading as much as I can, but wants some help tayloring this weapon to me. And yes, this is a great site.
Sounds like you have it right with your first thought.
300 win and use a match reamer.
1 in 10 twist 28", barrel Broughton 5C or Hart six land, Sendero Contour
JP side discharge tactical compensator brake !! LOVE them!!
Load some 215 Berger Hybrids with a Fed 215 and H-1000 start .-040" off the lands. Expect velocity higher than you think from this wonderful bullet and it's short bearing surface. Enjoy the high BC on the windy days.
Mine is 14 and 0 for big game kills this year from 200 yards to 1285. None have taken more than a couple steps. Last group at 1007 yds was under 4"
Jeff
shortpants
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2011
- Messages
- 619
I'll be taking your advice and building one very soon Jeff. I can't wait!
Sully2
Well-Known Member
I'm looking for some input on caliber selection for my first long range setup. I currently shoot a 308 win at distances of less than 500 yards. The rifle is way too light for me to get anything at extended ranges done with it, and it's a Ruger, so I'm really not expecting phenomenal accuracy out of it.
I'm thinking that I want to use a Savage as a donor. I prefer short actions, but may be willing to work with a long action. I will be using this for fun and for deer hunting, and I'm planning to build something in the style of the Noreen ULR or the CheyTac Intervention. Sure, they're ugly. But I just like them. Anyway, I want a vertical grip, and will be making the stock. Planning for something around 12 or 15 lbs because I don't handle recoil well anymore, and I'm planning on it to enhance my stability. Have a Vari-X 4 tactical 4.5-14x to mount on it until I select something better.
So, on to my actual question...
I want to be able to shoot out to about 1000 yards or more for fun. I won't be shooting anything bigger than a whitetail with it, and that will likely be at no more than 800 yards. I was orignally thinking of going with a 243 or 308, but I'm not sure I trust the downrange energy on them. Any other 6mm suggestions that would be effective and not too problematic? It gets windy around here sometimes. I was also considering 300wm. I was considering 338 Lapua at one point, but I'm not sure I want to mess with it right now. Was also considering 270, but not sure that it will do what I want.
Also, what are your barrel length and twist recommendations for the recommended calibers. I'm open to ideas for other calibers as well. But the caliber needs to be flexible and easy to find components for.
Yes, I reload. Yes, this is my first post, and I've been reading as much as I can, but wants some help tayloring this weapon to me. And yes, this is a great site.
Remington 700 VLS...the laminated stocked "varmint" rifle in 308. Good baseline for what your looking for. But one...reload for it...toss the factory trigger and install a Jewel and scope it with your choice
Shoo tit till there is no barrel left and then not only will you see that a 308 can hack it for 1000 yards but you'll be positive of what caliber you might want for a re-barrel.
I was just rereading this thread to go over the range of suggestions we threw at him. Some of us, myself included, diverged from the specs of his original request.
He wanted suggestions for a short-action load that could punch paper to 1,000 yards & deer to 800 yards for a custom rifle to be built on a Savage action that would top out at around 15 pounds and have minimal recoil.
Going back to those specs, the WSM cartridges are the only suggestions I would make, be it the: .270, 7 MM or 300 WSM. The 7 MM WSM is now becoming obsolete as few if any rifles are still being produced in it so I do not suggest building anything in that chambering. The .270 WSM and .300 WSM have become very common rounds. The .270 WSM is nearly a performance clone of the 7 MM Rem mag and the .300 WSM is a performance clone of the .300 Win mag.. Either of these cartridges has the potential to do what you are looking for. The .270 has the advantage in that it is faster so bullet drop is less an issue for the first 600 yards and the .300 WSM has the advantage of much more retained energy as you approach the 800 yard mark. Weigh those tradeoffs & make your choice.
For either chambering I would be looking at a 28-30" barrel for a heavy long-range rig. If you have an Accutrigger, fine, otherwise replace the Savage trigger with a good trigger.
The chamber should be cut to match your anticipated loading. Barrel twist should also be ordered to match the bullets you anticipate shooting. (Most bullets now come with a recommended twist rate on the box.)
WSM cartridges are easy to reload for & can be very accurate.
Good luck!
He wanted suggestions for a short-action load that could punch paper to 1,000 yards & deer to 800 yards for a custom rifle to be built on a Savage action that would top out at around 15 pounds and have minimal recoil.
Going back to those specs, the WSM cartridges are the only suggestions I would make, be it the: .270, 7 MM or 300 WSM. The 7 MM WSM is now becoming obsolete as few if any rifles are still being produced in it so I do not suggest building anything in that chambering. The .270 WSM and .300 WSM have become very common rounds. The .270 WSM is nearly a performance clone of the 7 MM Rem mag and the .300 WSM is a performance clone of the .300 Win mag.. Either of these cartridges has the potential to do what you are looking for. The .270 has the advantage in that it is faster so bullet drop is less an issue for the first 600 yards and the .300 WSM has the advantage of much more retained energy as you approach the 800 yard mark. Weigh those tradeoffs & make your choice.
For either chambering I would be looking at a 28-30" barrel for a heavy long-range rig. If you have an Accutrigger, fine, otherwise replace the Savage trigger with a good trigger.
The chamber should be cut to match your anticipated loading. Barrel twist should also be ordered to match the bullets you anticipate shooting. (Most bullets now come with a recommended twist rate on the box.)
WSM cartridges are easy to reload for & can be very accurate.
Good luck!
junkpile
Active Member
Appreciate the re-route, Buano. Although I have enjoyed the roundabout discussion, and has made me think about things a little more.
As I stated earlier, I prefer short actions, but would be willing to consider a long action for this project. I was actually starting to think that I should build this on a long action, so I could re-barrel it to something else down the road, and not have to restrict myself to a short action round. I was also thinking that I could be selling myself short in choosing to stay with a short action on this project.
All things together right now, I am really thinking that my caliber of choice is going to be 7mm Rem Mag. I keep thinking that something in 6 or 6.5 would be better, but I haven't had the time to research component availability on them. I've heard some on the 243, but nothing that really caught my interest.
I really need to keep this project to about $800 if I can. Even at that budget, it will probably take me some time to put together. My layout right now looks like this:
$200-300 donor rifle
$300-400 barrel
$100-200 mounts, trigger, and other stuff
Planning to do my own stock work, and to sell parts off of my donor.
Anyway, still really hoping to hear some good chatter on 6 and 6.5 mm, otherwise I think I have my mind made up on 7mm RM. (I'd do a handful of different rifles in different calibers to meet all the scenarios if I could, but I've got 2 young boys to feed and my wife can't find a job, blah blah blah. Life is getting in the way of me getting all the guns I want and need.)
As I stated earlier, I prefer short actions, but would be willing to consider a long action for this project. I was actually starting to think that I should build this on a long action, so I could re-barrel it to something else down the road, and not have to restrict myself to a short action round. I was also thinking that I could be selling myself short in choosing to stay with a short action on this project.
All things together right now, I am really thinking that my caliber of choice is going to be 7mm Rem Mag. I keep thinking that something in 6 or 6.5 would be better, but I haven't had the time to research component availability on them. I've heard some on the 243, but nothing that really caught my interest.
I really need to keep this project to about $800 if I can. Even at that budget, it will probably take me some time to put together. My layout right now looks like this:
$200-300 donor rifle
$300-400 barrel
$100-200 mounts, trigger, and other stuff
Planning to do my own stock work, and to sell parts off of my donor.
Anyway, still really hoping to hear some good chatter on 6 and 6.5 mm, otherwise I think I have my mind made up on 7mm RM. (I'd do a handful of different rifles in different calibers to meet all the scenarios if I could, but I've got 2 young boys to feed and my wife can't find a job, blah blah blah. Life is getting in the way of me getting all the guns I want and need.)
B23
Well-Known Member
Taking your price range into consideration and the fact that you already like Savage rifles, I'm not sure how you could look past any of the Savage models chambered in 6.5-284.
I'm no particular fan of Savage rifles but they are probably one of, if not, the best shooting rifles you can buy right off the shelf. Especially the ones in 6.5-284. I'm not sure which model 11 it is, maybe the LR Hunter or something like that, but it's pretty close to your price range and it is in a synthetic stock w/adjustable check piece, has a 1-8tw barrel that will shoot the 140's and also comes with a brake. I remember reading a review on one and everyone was VERY impressed with how well it shot right out of the box.
With the 6.5-284 you would get to use Lapua brass and that alone would give it serious bonus points in my book, not to mention the fact that the 6.5-284 chambering is inherently very accurate.
I'm no particular fan of Savage rifles but they are probably one of, if not, the best shooting rifles you can buy right off the shelf. Especially the ones in 6.5-284. I'm not sure which model 11 it is, maybe the LR Hunter or something like that, but it's pretty close to your price range and it is in a synthetic stock w/adjustable check piece, has a 1-8tw barrel that will shoot the 140's and also comes with a brake. I remember reading a review on one and everyone was VERY impressed with how well it shot right out of the box.
With the 6.5-284 you would get to use Lapua brass and that alone would give it serious bonus points in my book, not to mention the fact that the 6.5-284 chambering is inherently very accurate.
Taking your price range into consideration and the fact that you already like Savage rifles, I'm not sure how you could look past any of the Savage models chambered in 6.5-284.
I'm no particular fan of Savage rifles but they are probably one of, if not, the best shooting rifles you can buy right off the shelf. Especially the ones in 6.5-284. I'm not sure which model 11 it is, maybe the LR Hunter or something like that, but it's pretty close to your price range and it is in a synthetic stock w/adjustable check piece, has a 1-8tw barrel that will shoot the 140's and also comes with a brake. I remember reading a review on one and everyone was VERY impressed with how well it shot right out of the box.
With the 6.5-284 you would get to use Lapua brass and that alone would give it serious bonus points in my book, not to mention the fact that the 6.5-284 chambering is inherently very accurate.
I like your suggestion.
MSRP on these is $1,020 but it may be available in his price range. I do agree it's one hell of a rifle even if it has a carbon-steel barrel. It's ready for a scope! This rifle should do everything he's looking for AND MORE!
Since this same rifle is available in .338 Lapua, and he already has a "short range" rifle, I would lean that direction if he plans on hunting bigger game or extending ranges down the road. If not, the 6.5-284 is ideal.
