I would like to see Berger make ____

[bigngreen]

1:8.5" or faster.

The 7mm 195 hasn't been designed yet so the twist requirement is not known for sure, but it will probably be around 1:8" to 1:8.5".

-Bryan

What velocity are you guys thinking the 270's will hang together up to? I'm surprised that it will take a 1-8 twist, I shoot 175 Matrix in a 1-10 with no issues at 5600 ft elevation and 3014 fps out of my 270 WSM.

 

[midnightmalloy]

What velocity are you guys thinking the 270's will hang together up to? I'm surprised that it will take a 1-8 twist, I shoot 175 Matrix in a 1-10 with no issues at 5600 ft elevation and 3014 fps out of my 270 WSM.

I have also been told that the 190gr 7mm matrix's do fine in a 1-9". I think the 7LRM would push these 195's to 3000fps. I just talked to my friend Chris at benchmark and he thinks the 1-9" should be alright. I just would rather make a change now before I get it all done if you know what I mean. How much does a 1/2" of twist change things that much? I really dont want to miss out on using this bullet though!

 

[padd54]

Anybody of a barrel manufacturer that makes a 1-8 twist .277 barrel???

 

[lazylabs]

Pretty much any of the cut rifle guys can make you an 8, 8.25, 8.5 or whatever you would like.

Krieger
Bartlien
Channlyn
Obermeyer
Rock creek

Others out there also

 

[bigngreen]

Pac-Nor and Lilja have a 1-8, Benchmark is twisting a 1-9 for the 175 Matrix don't know if they have a 1-8 for the 270.

 

[liltank]

You can order a 1:8 through Brux from the looks of their order form.

 

[Topshot]

Due to significant feedback we've decided to make the 375 cal bullet next. This will be followed most likely by the 408 cal. Please keep in mind that introducing a whole new caliber takes a lot of time due to the significant amount of tooling involved. It won't be soon (and not likely this year) but the 375 cal and then 408 cal are the next new calibers to be made at Berger. We will likely add the others on this list eventually as well but let's get the other two out first before we even start to get excited about 8mm or 35 cal.

Eric,
Thanks for the update.
Now I can get serious about putting the .375CT together. Any idea on the weight of the proposed .375 bullet?

Bryan, Twist required for the .375 pill?.

Thanks a heap.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Fair enough Eric. Great post. I will swallow some pride here and say I shouldn't have said Berger needs to swallow some pride.

Just an FYI, I would be more than happy with 1/2 MOA accuracy from a bonded bullet. I have gotten that with others and even 1/4 MOA but they of course lack the BC's that your VLD line offers. I know that VLD's can be more finicky than traditional and maybe you have trouble making a bonded bullet to meet your 1/4 MOA goals for that reason, who knows....but I think 1/2 MOA is acceptable. The reason I say that is because I would rather have 1/2 MOA accuracy as a baseline with less margin of error in the wind than 1/4 MOA accuracy as a baseline with more errors from less than perfect wind judgments. High BC's in long range shooting helps = long range accuracy (forgivness).

Thanks again.

M

 

[Gene]

A 115-125 grain HPBT target bullet in .308 with BC around .45 for long range performance in 17=18 twist 30BR.

 

[Eric Stecker]

What velocity are you guys thinking the 270's will hang together up to?

It is important to understand that we are doing something we haven't done before so we all will learn the answer to this question together. The good news is that we are definitely going to find out.

I just talked to my friend Chris at benchmark and he thinks the 1-9" should be alright. How much does a 1/2" of twist change things that much?

Keep in mind that as the manufacturer we are required to make recommendations that take into account all shooters in all potential environmental conditions. The actual twist rate needed at sea level in the winter is different than the twist rate needed at 5,000 feet elevation in the summer. Those who understand the subtleties of such things can make decisions that are not consistent with our recommendation.

Regarding your question about 1/2" of twist rate, the key to this depends on how close you are to instability to begin with. If you are on the line and shoot a barrel 1/2" slower it will change things so much that you won't be able to hit anything past 50 feet. There will be a twist where the bullet is no longer stable. Crossing that line by 1/4" will produce a major change in results.

Any idea on the weight of the proposed .375 bullet?

At this point all we've done is decided to make the 375 caliber next instead of the 50 cal. Last year we introduced 12 or so new bullets. This year we plan on launching at least that many or more. Bryan is busy working on several designs. The 375 cal is on the list but it will be at least a few months before he is able to provide the design. I would not expect this bullet to see a test barrel until 2013. The good news is that if we followed our previous plan (to make the 50 cal first) the 375 cal Berger would not be ready until 2015 or later.

Bryan excels at many things and sorting out the best weight for a new caliber is one of them. It is too early at this point to say which weight will be first. I would like to hear some suggestions though.

I would be more than happy with 1/2 MOA accuracy from a bonded bullet.

Michael,
Thank you for your comments. I know I am not perfect and need to be checked from time to time. It is never my intension to be inflexible and your feedback reminds me that even when I believe I am open to alternatives I may not be acting as though I am.

Regarding the bonded bullets, I am enthusiastic about the potential to make a good shooting bonded bullet. We just have to keep in mind that they don't need to be used to win benchrest matches. We have other bullets for that.

A 115-125 grain HPBT target bullet in .308 with BC around .45 for long range performance in 17=18 twist 30BR.

Gene,
This is a real challenge. Making short bullets with high BCs is like making paper airplanes with jet engines. I can relay that at this time we don't have any plans for a bullet that fits your description. We have many bullets in development. At some point we will run out of new bullets to make. It is at this time that we will work harder to figure out how paper and jet fuel can coexist.

Regards,
Eric

 

[winmag]

Thank you Eric, Brian, & everyone at Berger.

I always hoped you'd give er a whirl. Im excited about this.
This is what everyone likes about you guys at Berger. You take the time to listen to the shooting public, & strive to give us what we ask for. Thanks again! If ever you need a volunteer to test your bonded line of bullets, im volunteering now. (& waiting with fingers crossed that you can pull it off. I'm sure you guys can if anyone can).
Thanks again
TJ Ewing

 

[liltank]

It is at this time that we will work harder to figure out how paper and jet fuel can coexist.

Regards,
Eric

I don't care who you are... that's funny! Sounds like you have some good things on the table. Can't wait for the 270 bullets. This has me pretty excited!

 

[Topshot]

Bryan excels at many things and sorting out the best weight for a new caliber is one of them. It is too early at this point to say which weight will be first. I would like to hear some suggestions though.
Regards,
Eric

Eric,
I would suggest that the .375 calibre bullet be stable in a 1 : 10 twist barrel at sea level and be at least 350 grains.

I have shot the now unavailable .375 calibre Sierra 350 grain SMK in the past and this bullet worked well under these parameters. If Berger could provide a reliable supply of high BC, .375 cal bullets then we would be very happy.

 

[Eric Stecker]

Topshot,

I am sure that Bryan is watching this thread and taking in all the feedback. He is very good at understanding the landscape of available rifles so I suspect this bullet or at least one version of this bullet will work in readily available twist rates.

Regards,
Eric