I would like to see Berger make ____

[winmag]

1. 225 to 230 grain .338
Something usable in the standard .338 Win

2. A line of VLD's with a bonded core. Maybe even a dreaded plastic tip.

That'd be cool.
But I doubt it'll ever come about. (#2) Berger has kindof painted themselves into a corner in wich bonded, or controlled expansion bullets may never get the chance to fly with a Berger stamp on the box.
I know very little about the J-4 jacket other than its incredibly thin & very concentric. Probably not gonna do anything with that jacket.
I know folks who use, & praise Berger bullets. I also know some who won't go near them.
I have not used them personally, so I cannot form an accurate opinion on them, but I would be very interested in using a bonded bullet if they came out with a whole new line. I know I'm not alone here, & Berger could generate a lot of sales from the controlled expansion side of the fence.
I see Berger as an honest company, with knowledgable employees, that stay in touch with thier customers. Just read thru some threads here, & you can see Berger folks helping, & commenting right here on LRH. I like that, & appreciate that. It would be cool to see Berger get involved in a whole new line of bullets. Id give em a whirl.

Not knocking Berger here guys. Not doubting anyone's personal experiences with them either, good or bad. I'm simply answering as to what id like to see, based on my hunting style.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

190-200 grn 7mmcal

225grn .350cal

250grn .350cal

I know that the .350 isn't a very popular caliber but they work well and could deffinatly use some life breathed into them by some new projectiles. Some bonded cores wouldn't be a bad thing for some of the calibers that are used on game the size of elk or are used in super magnum chamberings.

 

[Varminator 911]

Berger has stated they don't want to make bonded or plastic tip bullets because that hurts accuracy. They want their bullets capable of 0.25 MOA or better. Nosler is coming out with a 300 gn 338 accubond with BC above 0.7. They'll probably follow up with more high BC bullets. Let Nosler do controlled expansion and Berger accuracy.

At really long range a tougher bullet may be a disadvantage as often as it helps. I'd rather have accuracy and assured expansion. Hit em in the right spot and a Berger will be as good as anything at those lower velocities.

 

[padd54]

High BC (greater than .6) .257 bullets! What size (in grains) .257 bullet would it take to get a BC above .6?

+1 on this !!

 

[winmag]

Berger has stated they don't want to make bonded or plastic tip bullets because that hurts accuracy. They want their bullets capable of 0.25 MOA or better. Nosler is coming out with a 300 gn 338 accubond with BC above 0.7. They'll probably follow up with more high BC bullets. Let Nosler do controlled expansion and Berger accuracy.

At really long range a tougher bullet may be a disadvantage as often as it helps. I'd rather have accuracy and assured expansion. Hit em in the right spot and a Berger will be as good as anything at those lower velocities.

I'm well aware of Bergers stance. That's why I implied that it was a highly doubtfull proposition.
However, some of us find the added insurance of a tough bullet appealing when used in its appropriate range, & velocity on big critters. I'm not saying Berger is or isn't the best bullet for LR precision. I'm simply saying that they are missing out on a huge part of the market by painting themselves into a corner. I personally haven't tried them strictly because of all the horror stories. Right or wrong, I've just been too skittish to even try them.

Also I mentioned "a whole new line" of bullet specifically, & also mentioned that it most likely couldn't involve thier current jacket.

Now I'm fully aware that Accubonds Aren't benchrest bullets, & I agree at Extreme LR, & lower velocitys where Bergers shine brightest, Berger would be a better choice.
I'm sayin for 1800 fps & higher, ill go with a tougher bullet every time, cause I'm too chicken to try a fragile one on big game. I'm not saying accuracy & shot placement doesn't matter, nor am I implying a fragile bullet won't work. There are way too many respected hunters, & shooters who testify otherwise. I'm simply saying many of us are too nervous to even try them because of the numerous horror stories, from hunters & shooters that are just as respected.
If Berger came out with a completely new line of bonded bullet, with a BC equal to or higher than some bullets currently offered, (like Accubonds, or Innerbonds) with an opperating limmit, equal to or lower fps on the low end, & no ceiling, I'm sure they would be superb, in all aspects, & give a lot of folks the added insurance they need to give Bergers a whirl. I don't even know if that's possible, but if anybody could pull it off Berger could. Not to mention, appeal to a larger piece of the market.
Extreme LR shooters are a very small niche'. Then there are some folks who shoot what many consider extended, or LR but not Extreme LR. Then there are the masses of average guys who shoot twice a year. 1 bullet to check 100 yd zero, & 1 bullet to dump thier deer at 300 or less. I'm not one of those guys, but I'm not an Extreme LR guy yet either. I'm still workin within that 6-800 yd envelope.
Im not asking Berger to change what they've got for the folks who love, & use thier current offerings. I'm simply adding customer input & letting them know what I as a customer would like to see to give me the added confidence to try them out. That same bullet would appeal to the masses, & put the "target bullet" & "Berger grenade" rumors to rest, & give people more options to choose from is all.
Confidence has a lot to do with bullet selection. If they offered one of each, confidence wouldn't be as much of an issue for either side of the fence.

 

[elkoholic72]

I would like to see a 165gr in .270 for my wsm, and a 150 or 155gr 7mm for 7mm-08 long range application.

 

[cornstalker]

I am thinking winmag and I are on the same wavelength. Match bullets and hunting bullets are distinctly separated. They either explode and have a high BC, or they hang together and have the BC of a potato chip. The individual camps seem to be quite distinct.

Monolithic solids are great, but to earn BC they create the challenge of too much length.

I kind of thought Barnes was on the right track with their MRX, but to me it seemed too rear heavy to work well when velocity and rotation slows at long range.

I would look to an innovator like Berger, with the best ballistics staff in the industry, to find a way to build a bullet with the form factor to boost BC to a respectable level yet enable it to hold together. A polymer tip would facilitate expansion at lower velocities, but only at a small expense if any in regards to BC. Polymer tips would certainly create a more predictable point than a hollow point, hence the need for BR shooters to uniform meplats.

Why not a tapered jacket bonded core VLD with a tip to initiate expansion at lower velocity?

My knowledge is obviously limited compared to a lot of guys on here and someone may point out why my thinking is flawed. I welcome that as I would learn from it. I just don't understand why not, based on my current paradigm.

I kind of feel like "if it were that easy someone would have done it", yet still wonder, why not?

 

[liltank]

Why not a tapered jacket bonded core VLD with a tip to initiate expansion at lower velocity?

Problem solved.... Hornady A-max!

 

[cornstalker]

Problem solved.... Hornady A-max!

I did not know they were bonded, I thought they were swaged.

I do have a batch of them hBN coated and ready to try in my 6.5-284 after I finish shooting up my Scenars.

Thanks liltank.

 

[liltank]

I did not know they were bonded, I thought they were swaged.

I do have a batch of them hBN coated and ready to try in my 6.5-284 after I finish shooting up my Scenars.

Thanks liltank.

They are not bonded, but they do seem to work well as a VLD style tipped bullet. A lot of guys are getting good results in the heavier bullets for caliber.

 

[bigngreen]

I would like to see a 165gr in .270 for my wsm, and a 150 or 155gr 7mm for 7mm-08 long range application.

I've went rounds with a couple guys at Berger to try support the need for a 270 Berger bullet in the 160gr range, by their response I think snow ball would have a better chance on the sun than Berger making this bullet!The main point is that the most common twist rate for the 270 is 1-10 which no one seems to think will stabilize a 160 gr bullet, which it does and does it just fine, so I think it boils down to BR sex appeal and the 270 lacks it!!!
The Matrix 165 and 175 are so close to what a Berger would be that I would think Berger would not want to go to the expense of tooling up a bullet in that class when there is already a good bullet available that they provide jackets for already.

I don't know if I would like to see a bonded Berger or not, there are few bonded bullets out their with out some kind of tip to start expansion, the ones that I'm aware of that do not use a tip have a Meplat so large it turns the bullet into a little bit of a plow, killing any BC gain that one might achieve.

I think all I would like to see is more of a move to the hybrid design in the hunting line, maybe a 338 250gr and a couple 375 cal bullets, one heavy for the Cheytac based cases and one light for the Norma and RUM cases.

 

[elktaxi1]

some lighter bullets(hybrid 140) that can go above 3200 and not blow up or get so unstabile we can use them. so guys using the big stuff can shoot them. there are some of us that dont like the heavey bullets.gun)

 

[Topshot]

Problem solved.... Hornady Interbond!

I fixed it for ya!

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Pyro, I sat down with Eric Stecker for about 25 minutes at the shot show talking bullets and then with several other Berger team members there. Berger shooters will be very excited about what Berger has in the works to be released as the year goes by. They will be coming out with hybrid's in several bullets that Berger says combine the best of a high BC secant ogive with tangent ogive benefits. These will be available listed as hunting bullets. Some things discussed were off the record for now but shooters will be finding out about some of these exciting new bullets and technology as the year progresses and they are ready to release them. I will be doing a little shot show review that will identify some of the new things available at the show and to be released as the year goes by.