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Hunting with E-bikes

thumperman said:
When motorized signed were put up back in the day. Everyone here knows e-bikes is not what they were talking about. E-bikes have no more impact than a regular bike. And if you're argument is people can get back into the woods further than on a regular bike and distribute the wildlife you are rite. But so do people on horses and there allowed. When they said no motorized vehicles we all know what they were talking about, loud, fuel burning, fast motorized vehicles. Just my 2 cents
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I agree with you that back when those signs were put up, they were referring to combustion powered motor bikes. The reason for that is because electric powered motor bikes did not exist. But to then take that fact and conclude that the land managers didn't mean for any motorized restrictions to apply to electric motor bikes is simply not true.
 
How do you know that for sure e-bikes weren't even thought of back then. So tell me this, what was the reason or reasons for not allowing a motorized vehicles behind gates way back then in first place. 🤔
 
thumperman said:
How do you know that for sure e-bikes weren't even thought of back then. So tell me this, what was the reason or reasons for not allowing a motorized vehicles behind gates way back then in first place. 🤔
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There were/are a variety of reasons that motorized vehicles are or are not allowed in different areas. One of the reasons in some places is because the trails aren't suitable for them. In other places, the soils of the trail tread can't handle the torque from the motor quickly causing erosion problems. In other places, land managers have goals of providing different experiences for different people and so some places are motorized and some aren't. Where I live there is specifically an area that closes to motorized uses at the beginning of hunting season to provide a non-motorized hunting experience.

This is similar to what we also have in Wilderness areas. I am referring to actual Wilderness areas, not just the "woods". The Wilderness Act of 1964 states that there will be "no mechanical transport" in Wilderness. For clarification, in 1966 the USFS stated, "Mechanical transport, as herein used, shall include any contrivance which travels over ground, snow, or water on wheels, tracks, skids, or by floatation and is propelled by a nonliving power source contained or carried on or within the device." At this point mountain bikes did not exist. Fast forward to the 80's and the USFS expanded their definition to include bicycles and hang gliders. I could sit and argue all day that mechanized obviously meant something with a nonliving power source, but it still wouldn't change the current situation. Mountain bikes didn't exist at the time the Wilderness Act was passed and, since then, the land managers have expanded their interpretation to now include them. The bottom line is that new methods of transport will continue to be created and evolve. It is the job of land managers to figure out how to deal with all of these new contraptions and still meet their objectives as land managers going forward.

I'm a mountain biker. I would love to be able to ride on some trails in some Wilderness areas, but I can't. And while I may not agree with that decision, I can at least acknowledge and understand some of the reasons why.

I guess I am sympathetic to most land managers (there are exceptions) because, having worked for and with the BLM and USFS, I have seen from the inside that they are mostly very good people trying to do good and very thankless work.
 
I guess I should of clarified a little bit. I'm talking about trailers and roads that actually have a no motorized vehicles sign on it. I under stand the wilderness areas and things like that and agree 100 percent. But if a normal bike is allowed and a horse is allowed, why isn't an e-bike.
 
thumperman said:
I guess I should of clarified a little bit. I'm talking about trailers and roads that actually have a no motorized vehicles sign on it. I under stand the wilderness areas and things like that and agree 100 percent. But if a normal bike is allowed and a horse is allowed, why isn't an e-bike.
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Around here E-bikes are allowed on motorized trails. They are not allowed on non-motorized trails, but that doesn't seem to deter very many of them from going there. Our local ranger district treats them as a motorized vehicle. Are they the same as a traditional combustion engine driven motorcycle? Mostly not, but some are and in fact there are electric ones that don't even have a pedal option. However, they all do have a motor. And differentiating between which motors have how much power and which ones require some pedaling vs. no pedaling etc. is a LOT to ask a land manager to be knowledgeable about because it changes every year. So, the easiest delineation is motorized vs. non-motorized. The motors aren't all the same, but the fact that they have motors is. As for the horses, I don't agree that they should be allowed darn near everywhere like they are. But that's a whole other conversation....
 
svgreg said:
There were/are a variety of reasons that motorized vehicles are or are not allowed in different areas. One of the reasons in some places is because the trails aren't suitable for them. In other places, the soils of the trail tread can't handle the torque from the motor quickly causing erosion problems. In other places, land managers have goals of providing different experiences for different people and so some places are motorized and some aren't. Where I live there is specifically an area that closes to motorized uses at the beginning of hunting season to provide a non-motorized hunting experience.

This is similar to what we also have in Wilderness areas. I am referring to actual Wilderness areas, not just the "woods". The Wilderness Act of 1964 states that there will be "no mechanical transport" in Wilderness. For clarification, in 1966 the USFS stated, "Mechanical transport, as herein used, shall include any contrivance which travels over ground, snow, or water on wheels, tracks, skids, or by floatation and is propelled by a nonliving power source contained or carried on or within the device." At this point mountain bikes did not exist. Fast forward to the 80's and the USFS expanded their definition to include bicycles and hang gliders. I could sit and argue all day that mechanized obviously meant something with a nonliving power source, but it still wouldn't change the current situation. Mountain bikes didn't exist at the time the Wilderness Act was passed and, since then, the land managers have expanded their interpretation to now include them. The bottom line is that new methods of transport will continue to be created and evolve. It is the job of land managers to figure out how to deal with all of these new contraptions and still meet their objectives as land managers going forward.

I'm a mountain biker. I would love to be able to ride on some trails in some Wilderness areas, but I can't. And while I may not agree with that decision, I can at least acknowledge and understand some of the reasons why.

I guess I am sympathetic to most land managers (there are exceptions) because, having worked for and with the BLM and USFS, I have seen from the inside that they are mostly very good people trying to do good and very thankless work.
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Hang gliders?
 
338 dude said:
Hang gliders?
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Right? Yup, the definition was, "Mechanical transport, as herein used, shall include any contrivance which travels over ground, snow, or water on wheels, tracks, skids, or by floatation and is propelled by a nonliving power source contained or carried on or within the device." And then in the 80's, the BLM and the National Park Service added "or is a bicycle or a hang glider". No idea why the hang gliders got lumped in there.
I was just on a rescue in the Sawtooth Wilderness area last week and noticed the "no drones allowed" signage, which made me wonder if those are also banned in all Wilderness. I would guess they are....
 

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